Spin-off of Why I believe
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12-04-2017, 05:10 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 03:13 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 12:03 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  If someone considers an anecdote about prayer working to be evidence, would they consider an anecdote about it not working to be counter evidence?

The idea of prayer is messed up in so many ways. It's kind of like God has nodded off and you nudge him.
(12-04-2017 03:02 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > Actually, studies have been done. Prayer has been shown to be ineffective in bringing about changes in reality:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Prayer


I do some brain hacking with binaural beats from time to time. Auditory hallucinations are fun. I wouldn't be surprised if all the praying and chanting and flailing about doesn't consistently induce specific brain waves they find pleasurable. Seems like you'd have a lot more control of the frequency and resultant brain waves by just electronically manipulating sine waves instead of going through all that rigamarole though. What the fuck is the frequency, Kenneth?

Facepalm Knock knock is anyone home? Does anyone here actually read what others post? Ok yes that was sarcasm but really it's like an echo chamber in here of double standard demands an ad hominem. I know there are ones here who actually do think and present logical arguments and positions. Science is presented as peer reviewed. Is that scientific discipline just disregarded here?
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12-04-2017, 05:19 AM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2017 05:34 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
Prayer is the act of familiarizing oneself with the divine. The last question you're going to ask yourself as a moral being is

Did I fuck the dog, or was I a good boy?

The one that's going to answer is that divine self, with a heaven or hell of your own making.

Perhaps the atheists' negative reaction to prayer is the improper use of prayer. Consider

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12-04-2017, 05:20 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 05:10 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 04:58 AM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Facepalm Ah respectfully perhaps this should be run by Aliza (#96),

[Image: facepalm.gif] Disrespectfully, are you by any chance Tomasia's little (and dumber) brother? Because you seem to have reached similar levels of dumb arrogance in record time.

Equally disrespectfully, how about not telling us who and when can reply to whom and what?

[Image: facepalm.gif]

Yeah dude's gotta drop the pretense and pomp and circumstance if he wants to play. Everytime he uses "respectfully" I think "I don't mean to be rude but, " But what? It means you're gonna be rude. It means he's not gonna be respectful. And lo and behold he's invariably not. Drop the show and maybe I'll read your shit to see if you have anything interesting to say.

#sigh
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12-04-2017, 05:23 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 05:19 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Prayer is the act of familiarizing oneself with the divine. The last question you're going to ask yourself as a moral being is

Did I fuck the dog, or was I a good boy?

The one that's going to answer is that divine self, with a heaven or hell of your own making.

Perhaps the atheists negative reaction to prayer is the improper use of prayer. Consider

Are you reading this with me? These are the words of the prophet. pbuh

#sigh
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12-04-2017, 05:26 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 05:20 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yeah dude's gotta drop the pretense and pomp and circumstance if he wants to play. Everytime he uses "respectfully" I think "I don't mean to be rude but, " But what? It means you're gonna be rude. It means he's not gonna be respectful. And lo and behold he's invariably not. Drop the show and maybe I'll read your shit to see if you have anything interesting to say.

I'm not racist, but... Tongue

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12-04-2017, 05:28 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 05:10 AM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Facepalm Knock knock is anyone home? Does anyone here actually read what others post?

Yes. I've learned amazing things from reading the other posts.

Oh, and LOSE THE ATTITUDE, NOOB.

(12-04-2017 05:10 AM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Ok yes that was sarcasm but really it's like an echo chamber in here of double standard demands an ad hominem.

WHERE?!?!




Please answer:

Is this the story cited as a miracle?

Linky

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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12-04-2017, 05:42 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(11-04-2017 05:27 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(11-04-2017 08:47 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > That last question is the most intelligent one I've seen posted all day. Consider

I can't say as I don't own one. I do know there are some that are Christian only. I can only say don't judge me by what some other Christians do just as you would not want t be judged by what some other atheists do. I also know this is not my forum either the mods are free to ban me at any time for cause and I'm ok with that and agree with that.

I judge people (in part) by the honesty and integrity. When christians claim knowledge they don't have and spout off on topics they know nothing about, as well as being judgemental pricks, it shows what low regard they have for these. WI judge christians by other christians, because they all claim to follow the same basic doctrine. You can't say that about atheists. Well, you CAN, and you probably will, but, as in all things christian, wishing don't make it so.
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12-04-2017, 05:45 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(11-04-2017 10:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  As to prayers and healing. Yes I believe in praying to God for healing.

Yet you admit earlier that you go to doctors and use modern medicine. That doesn't sound like you have a lot of faith...

(11-04-2017 10:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Now do I have any proof or any way to prove definitively that prayer heals people? No, none, zip, nada! Fair enough? So do I still pray for those who are sick? Absolutely! Now am I being an irrational gullible nitwit etc for believing in praying for the sick with no "provable" evidence that prayer has any effect for the sick?

You are certainly wasting your time.

(11-04-2017 10:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Before everyone jumps on the bandwagon I have something to ask of you. I simply ask, no I beg please each and everyone here do this one thing. Call or go to your doctor or any doctor your child's pediatrician, regular md, specialist just good random selection and ask these three questions:

Point 1: Anecdotal evidence. Look it up.
Point 2: Do your own work.

(11-04-2017 10:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Do you believe in praying for your patients?
Do you pray with families if asked to?
Do you have any evidence prayer helps?

WHY?
Why would you ask a medical professional about something outside of their chosen field?
Would you ask your doctor about your car problems?
Would you ask your pediatrician about that clogged toilet?
Would you ask your proctologist about your tax return?

(11-04-2017 10:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I have no idea what answers you will get just try it.

It's called "personal opinion" and it is NOT scientific evidence.

(11-04-2017 10:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I got no right wing links, no BS polls, nothing but doctors at random giving their own testimony.

You are asking us to do your work and conduct an informal, unscientific, completely unregulated poll, on a fractional population, with no documentation of the results and no way to verify the answers.

That. is. not. science.

(11-04-2017 10:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Do that and if everyone comes back empty then fine everyone would be well within their rights to logically assume I am an irrational gullible nitwit.

You've already confirmed that you're gullible, via the links you've cited. If your statement below, about refusing to adjust your beliefs is accurate, then you are irrational.

(11-04-2017 10:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  But even still yes I will pray for those sick and hurting

So even if prayer is demonstrated to be ineffective, you will continue to practice it?
You will refuse to adjust your beliefs in the face of any evidence.

This is a very telling point against you.

This is the textbook definition of delusion.

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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12-04-2017, 05:48 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(11-04-2017 06:48 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(11-04-2017 05:44 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Heh. I can quote myself. Heh.

Anyway...

The point in bringing up suicide bombers is not that islam and chrisitianity are the same.

The point is that muslim suicide bombers are acting on FAITH in their god.

Why is their faith wrong and your faith right?

Every believer claims to have the ONE TRUE FAITH.

Until a believer provides empirical evidence, something concrete, verifiable, testable and repeatable, then faith is meaningless.

Faith is not a virtue. Faith is gullibility.

I agree that Muslim suicide bombers are acting on faith in Allah and the teachings of Islam. I would say neither faith is wrong but is simply an indication of their adherence of a belief they hold to be true. Perhaps it would be better to ask why is the object of one person's faith right and the ofject of another person's wrong? I would then say neither is wrong to them. They are simply exercising their held belief in Islam and its teachings just as an atheist is exercising a belief that deities do not exist and having a disregard to any religious teachings and Christians are exercising their belief in Christianity. Each of the three beliefs believe they are right and in a relative world each can be seen as to be right in their own eyes. There in lies the problem with relative truth as opposed to absolute truth.

So as not to dodge the question of why is one is right and one wrong I would simply ask, Is it right to kill someone simply for what they believe. Curious as to how you might answer the right/wrong question?

Two are based on emotion (as well as preying on emotion) and one is based on logic.
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12-04-2017, 05:49 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(11-04-2017 08:52 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I acknowledge this is an atheist forum. I don't have a problem with people expressing them selves here as they see fit. I assure you my sensibilities are anything but delicate. Thank you for you patience in my reply

Except you don't reply. You dodge and weave and change the subject. You avoid answering anything that might lead you towards admitting that your beliefs are irrational. It's quite the interesting defense mechanism.

Let's try again...

Given that faith can be used to believe literally any position, is it a valid path to knowledge? If so, how.

Please do not go into any "true for you" garbage... what is true is true for all. Experiences differ but there is only a single reality.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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