Spin-off of Why I believe
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12-04-2017, 04:10 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 04:05 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I asked you in your introduction thread if you had any prior experience communicating with atheists and you replied that you didn't, but you do have a gay friend.

Oy vey! Say it ain't so, Aliza! Facepalm

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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12-04-2017, 04:21 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 03:13 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 12:03 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  If someone considers an anecdote about prayer working to be evidence, would they consider an anecdote about it not working to be counter evidence?

The idea of prayer is messed up in so many ways. It's kind of like God has nodded off and you nudge him.
(12-04-2017 03:02 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > Actually, studies have been done. Prayer has been shown to be ineffective in bringing about changes in reality:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Prayer


I do some brain hacking with binaural beats from time to time. Auditory hallucinations are fun. I wouldn't be surprised if all the praying and chanting and flailing about doesn't consistently induce specific brain waves they find pleasurable. Seems like you'd have a lot more control of the frequency and resultant brain waves by just electronically manipulating sine waves instead of going through all that rigamarole though. What the fuck is the frequency, Kenneth?

I suspect prayer does "work" for some people. If you believe in it and use it in a hopeless situation, you might cope better. But I think it's purely the placebo effect. I will be the first to admit that this is only a hunch; not an idea grounded in the awesome goodness of peer reviewed scientific research at all.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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12-04-2017, 04:41 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
Absolutely, yes. If I believed rubbing myself against my cupboard would magically make me stronger, then doing so would help me cope. The placebo effect is significant.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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12-04-2017, 05:02 PM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2017 05:06 PM by The Organic Chemist.)
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 08:25 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 08:13 AM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Is it right to kill a baby because if god tells you to? I may not answer this to your satisfaction but I won't dodge it either. The Bible presents many difficult things for us as humans to understand and justify in our minds. Also it is natural to filter these things through view we hold to be true. If our view is that God is holy good and just and all knowing then is it possible for me to say it's right or wrong. Is God a murderer for killing the Egyptian babies? Have you ever considered that from the position of the Israelites? Do you consider slavery wrong? Do you consider evil torturous slavery even more wrong? Suppose your were that Israelite father slave and Pharoah killed "your" son because he feared your growing numbers. Was that ever right. Is God then a murderer because He killed the Egyptian babies to free you from further slavery and evil? Was the United States murderers for killing the Japanese babies with those two bombs? If one fairly studies the Bible in context one will find that God's judgement is always based on evil?
Laughat So you're asserting that God is right to kill Egyptian babies because Egyptians were nasty to Israelites? I assume then that Donald Trump's plan to kill terrorist's families fills you with delight too?

Quote:Are you going to dodge this question; Is it right to kill a baby in the womb just because one wants to?
Nice use of emotive language there Mr Not-Double-Standard. Firstly, it's only the *mother* who has the choice in any country where abortion is legal. Not just anyone, as you seem to be trying to suggest here.

Secondly, what do you class as a baby? Is it the moment a sperm fuses with an egg? Is it the moment it looks human? Would you really cry about one cell if it died? Are you aware that embryos are spontaneously aborted routinely? Several birth abnormalities result in spontaneous abortions. What do you know of the birth process? Or are you just another religious fundamentalist mouthing off?

Question for you Theist: you said that killing babies may be ok if you hold god to be good and holy but how did you determine that god was the good one? Of course people he is butt-puppetting will say he is but I am sure Manson thought he was good as well. Satan's body count is miniscule compared to the christian god.

Another thing, if you don't like getting bombarded by 20 different people at once (which I could hardly blame you), consider going to the boxing ring with someone you feel comfortable with and have a one-on-one discussion/debate. Just a thought.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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12-04-2017, 05:12 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 04:05 PM)Aliza Wrote:  You're obviously here to proselytize in spite of your previous insistence that you're not (because you obviously want us to agree with you on this prayer thing.)

To be fair, he didn't come in guns blazing. I don't think he actually came to proselytize, he just backed himself into a corner because he felt honour bound to defend his faith. And like every crappy apologist, he defended it with the tools available, which were limited... mainly shitty debate tactics.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-04-2017, 05:23 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 05:12 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 04:05 PM)Aliza Wrote:  You're obviously here to proselytize in spite of your previous insistence that you're not (because you obviously want us to agree with you on this prayer thing.)

To be fair, he didn't come in guns blazing. I don't think he actually came to proselytize, he just backed himself into a corner because he felt honour bound to defend his faith. And like every crappy apologist, he defended it with the tools available, which were limited... mainly shitty debate tactics.

Christians are by nature, proselytizers. --To that end, some ex-Christians are also proselytizers because that's what they know.

When I discuss religion or my beliefs, my goal is to inform and be understood. ATT seeks to be agreed with. Whether he realizes it or not, he's trying to market and sell his religion. It's just what many Christians do.
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12-04-2017, 05:28 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(10-04-2017 09:11 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The only people who care why they believe are themselves, and they can't convince themselves believing makes any sense.

Actually, I've been fascinated by the psychology of belief for most of my adult life.
It's one of the main reasons I hang around forums like this. Yes

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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12-04-2017, 05:28 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 05:23 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 05:12 PM)morondog Wrote:  To be fair, he didn't come in guns blazing. I don't think he actually came to proselytize, he just backed himself into a corner because he felt honour bound to defend his faith. And like every crappy apologist, he defended it with the tools available, which were limited... mainly shitty debate tactics.

Christians are by nature, proselytizers. --To that end, some ex-Christians are also proselytizers because that's what they know.

When I discuss religion or my beliefs, my goal is to inform and be understood. ATT seeks to be agreed with. Whether he realizes it or not, he's trying to market and sell his religion. It's just what many Christians do.

Indeed Smile Not being agreed with seems to cause these jokers amazing amounts of distress, a fact which I'm somewhat sadistically pleased about.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-04-2017, 05:33 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 05:12 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 04:05 PM)Aliza Wrote:  You're obviously here to proselytize in spite of your previous insistence that you're not (because you obviously want us to agree with you on this prayer thing.)

To be fair, he didn't come in guns blazing. I don't think he actually came to proselytize, he just backed himself into a corner because he felt honour bound to defend his faith. And like every crappy apologist, he defended it with the tools available, which were limited... mainly shitty debate tactics.

I kinda feel sorry for them, theists weapons are so limited and primitive its never really a fair fight like spears v machine guns
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12-04-2017, 05:35 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(12-04-2017 05:33 PM)adey67 Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 05:12 PM)morondog Wrote:  To be fair, he didn't come in guns blazing. I don't think he actually came to proselytize, he just backed himself into a corner because he felt honour bound to defend his faith. And like every crappy apologist, he defended it with the tools available, which were limited... mainly shitty debate tactics.

I kinda feel sorry for them, theists weapons are so limited and primitive its never really a fair fight like spears v machine guns

Laugh out load
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