Spin-off of Why I believe
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14-04-2017, 11:22 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
Also, you can change facts about reality if you can convince enough people.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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14-04-2017, 12:35 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(14-04-2017 11:22 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Also, you can change facts about reality if you can convince enough people.

Ooh, there's a thought ... did we study at the Joseph Goebbels Institute of Advertising, Art & Design? Shy

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15-04-2017, 07:00 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(13-04-2017 02:45 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  I believe it is quite easy to make a distinction between what I believe about the creator God and something that is merely imaginary.

You should be answering the questions we've already posed, rather than continuing your apologetics.

(13-04-2017 02:45 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  First what would make "something" merely imaginary. I say that if something is always presented and aways accepted by a majority of the people and the majority of the time is a good indication it is merely imaginary.

There is a difference between a created, fictional character and a character that is believed to be real, but is not. However the number of believers is not an indicator of truth, as others have noted.

(13-04-2017 02:45 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  Also if it presents itself as merely imaginary it would be accepted and viewed as merely imaginary. A few examples I would present as meeting what I would think qualifies for an accepted view of what would be merely imaginary would include: the tooth fairy, fairytales, the Easter bunny, Flying Spaghetti Monster ( by self definition) , pink unicorns etc. it can reliably stated then that theses are merely imaginary by the majority of people.

The FSM is indeed imaginary, and was created to show the fallacy and failures of faith based belief.

However the millions of children believe in the tooth fairy, santa claus and the easter bunny. According to your logic (bandwagon fallacy) that would make them true. Saint Nicholas aka santa claus was indeed based on a real person.

Even worse for you, children can present actual evidence of the existence of the tooth fairy (missing teeth and money), santa claus (missing snacks and presents, mall santas, etc.) and the easter bunny (candy baskets, etc.)

Unicorns, even worse for you, actually do exist, although the stories have become embellished to the point of fiction. The actual bestiary texts that describe unicorns are talking about the rhinoceros. (Aaronra talks about these in one of his videos.) There are also cases of horned animals, like deer, having one horn and horn growth in other animals, even people. (google it. it's not pretty.)

(13-04-2017 02:45 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  Then what would serve reliably that there is a distinction between the God I believe as not just merely imaginary compaired to those above. The God I believe on is not taught and accepted by the majority of the people the majority of the time as being merely imaginary.

Bandwagon fallacy.

(13-04-2017 02:45 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  The God I believe in does not define Himself as merely imaginary. I acknowledge that there are those who do teach and accept the God I believe as merely imaginary.

Your god does not define anything. People define their god(s), and interestingly enough, those gods always seems to agree with the desires and intentions of those describing them. Go figure.

(13-04-2017 02:45 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  Examples that the God I believe in is not viewed as merely imaginary is:
God is taught that His Son Jesus came to earth. Is this just merely imaginary? The fact that the Georgia calendar marks that date and has been used and acknowledged that point in time with the designation BC and A. D. For hundreds of years to denofe that birth is more than merely imaginary

The fact that people made a calendar for their character does not mean the character is real. According to that logic, Spongebob is real because we have TV schedules that show when the episodes air.

ALL HAIL THE MAGIC CONCH!!! LOOLOOLOOOLOOOLOOO

You also seem unaware that the dates (such as Dec. 25th) are arbitrary. There is no way to know the "true" date of jesus' birth. Another thing that you would think an omnipotent god would have thought of...)

(13-04-2017 02:45 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  The founding fathers declared "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." To declare our unalienable rights are endowed on us by a Creator is definitely not viewing the God I believe in as merely imaginary.

The founding fathers used the language of the times in accordance with their own understanding and societal pressures. The founding fathers were various types of christians, theists, deists and atheists. The atheists mostly kept quiet about it.

Thomas Jefferson? Deist. He believed in a creator god and that jesus was an admirable but human person. Look up the Jefferson bible.

Thomas Paine? Atheist. We owe more to this man than any of the others. He was the first man to use the words Human Rights together. He was openly atheist and was socially ostracized for that.

Ben Franklin? Atheist but kept his views hidden.

The founding fathers also specifically wrote in the SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE because otherwise, the feuding christians would never have ratified the constitution.

(13-04-2017 02:45 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  Our National Motto "In God We Trust" , a law of the land since 1956 and first appearing on coins in 1864 is anything but merely imaginary

A clear violation of the constitution. The former motto, E Pluribus Unum was much better and more appropriate. The motto was changed during one of the darkest, most repressive times in American History, the Red Scare. A fitting time to adopt a motto reflective of an oppressive god.

(13-04-2017 02:45 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  Princeton’s crest still says “Dei sub numine viget,” which is Latin for “Under God she flourishes.” Merely imaginary?

As a private institution Princeton can make their motto anything they want.

(13-04-2017 02:45 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  If one simply looks there is a multitude of evidence that the God I believe in is reliably distinguished differently than those above as merely imaginary when compared to fairy tales etc.

Nope. I think I might have even proved that there is more evidence for the easter bunny than your god...

(13-04-2017 02:45 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  A final note, no I'm not saying any of this implies nor is offered, nor claims as proof of God. But is being presented as evidence that there is a multitude of evidence that there is a real distinction between the God I believe in and the other things noted above as merely imaginary.

Nope. Shredded on multiple levels.

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15-04-2017, 07:52 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
Yogi_Bear, you seem rather a credulous guy. Happen I've got a lovely bridge I can sell you. Bought it from Aliza. She sent me the ownership documents and everything. And a photo. I've not yet visited there yet, but it's definitely my bridge. I could cut you in on a share.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-04-2017, 11:23 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
Aliza Wrote:Ugh. I hate when Christians say they're blessed for this, or blessed for that. Why do you guys do that?
"I am blessed" is another way to say "I have something that is good for me". Why do I say this? Because I believe it is true.

Aliza Wrote:Speaking strictly for myself here, it actually makes me feel uncomfortable
Oh well.

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15-04-2017, 11:28 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
Aliza Wrote:You're on their turf.
Ugh, I hate when Christians come to atheist forums and try to tell the locals what's what.
What does it have to do with me saying "I am blessed (something is good for me)"?
Why can't I say this on atheist forum?

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15-04-2017, 11:28 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(14-04-2017 12:35 PM)kim Wrote:  
(14-04-2017 11:22 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Also, you can change facts about reality if you can convince enough people.

Ooh, there's a thought ... did we study at the Joseph Goebbels Institute of Advertising, Art & Design? Shy

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15-04-2017, 11:32 AM (This post was last modified: 15-04-2017 11:36 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(15-04-2017 11:28 AM)Alla Wrote:  
Aliza Wrote:You're on their turf.
Ugh, I hate when Christians come to atheist forums and try to tell the locals what's what.
What does it have to do with me saying "I am blessed (something is good for me)"?
Why can't I say this on atheist forum?

I don't mind it at all when you say it, Alla. When you say it it doesn't come across as disingenuous and patronizing. It's when the condescending and supercilious use it that it becomes nauseating. I don't get a "holier than thou" vibe from you. But you are an exception rather than the rule.

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15-04-2017, 11:33 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
Aliza Wrote:Yes, it's an open forum. I'm sharing with you that your expressions of blessings may make others uncomfortable. It certainly makes me uncomfortable. It also may potentially alienate others and automatically align them against you and the ideas you're trying to share.
Are you afraid of ideas that are different than yours? Are you delicate snowflake?

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15-04-2017, 11:37 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(15-04-2017 11:32 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(15-04-2017 11:28 AM)Alla Wrote:  What does it have to do with me saying "I am blessed (something is good for me)"?
Why can't I say this on atheist forum?

I don't mind it at all when you say it, Alla. When you say it it doesn't come across as disingenuous and patronizing. It's when the condescending and supercilious use it that it becomes nauseating. I don't get a "holier than thou" vibe from you. But you are an exception rather than the rule.
I agree with you, GirlyMan, that when it comes in a patronizing way than it is wrong. It should NOT be that way. It should be done in a nice way

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