Spin-off of Why I believe
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16-04-2017, 03:46 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 03:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-04-2017 02:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  I believe that it is important to learn pleasure and pain,

I agree and enjoy moderate pain coupled with some pleasure.

Upon reflection that's probably not what you were talking about. Tongue

Kinky mom.

I get it though, I've lived the lifestyle too lol

This was funny as hell though, thanks Smile

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16-04-2017, 03:53 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 03:18 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  
(16-04-2017 03:10 PM)Alla Wrote:  Little child will tell you that shots are evil. They cause fear, pain and suffering. GOOD parent is able to prevent this "evil" but not willing.
Why? Is it because he or she malevolent? This was rhetorical question.
What in the eyes of a child is evil, it is good and right in the eyes of GOOD parent

> Inappropriate analogy. God is supposed to be all-loving and all-powerful. Evil cannot exist unless he wills it to exist. Evil does exist. Therefore, God is either a malevolent being, or else he does not exist by reason of self-contradiction.

I don't believe in god. but ...

1) supposed to be all loving so there can't be evil. that's stupid. he can't love and have evil? really? observations say different.

2) all powerful so he must of willed it to exist. all powerful doesn't mean stupid. No evil, no grace. We might as well be oswald.

3) either malevolent or doesn't exists due to self contradiction. well, this is so limited I aint even bothering. Theists can figure their own way around this one.

You seem to be claiming knowledge that we don't, as atheists, don't have. I must say, simple to get around even for the shallowest of theists. This atheists is about the shallowest of theists I know.
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16-04-2017, 03:54 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
SYZ Wrote:I regard the fact that every day of the year, around 16,000 children under the age of 4 will die in sub-Saharan Africa from malnutrition, dehydration, and preventable diseases as an evil thing.
Can I ask you this question:
if God takes care of them what are you going to do?
And these questions:

Is this GOOD FOR YOU to learn to bring relief to those who suffer? is this GOOD FOR YOU to share with those who don't have what you have?
What does it do to you when you help hungry and needy out of love and compassion? what does it do to those who see your love and sacrifice of your time, your money, your talents?

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16-04-2017, 03:55 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 03:46 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(16-04-2017 03:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I agree and enjoy moderate pain coupled with some pleasure.

Upon reflection that's probably not what you were talking about. Tongue

Kinky mom.

I get it though, I've lived the lifestyle too lol

This was funny as hell though, thanks Smile

lots of ball busting here, its funny.
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16-04-2017, 03:57 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
Laugh out load
(16-04-2017 03:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-04-2017 02:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  I believe that it is important to learn pleasure and pain,

I agree and enjoy moderate pain coupled with some pleasure.

Upon reflection that's probably not what you were talking about. Tongue

Laugh out load no, this is not what I was talking about.
But I also agree with you - I enjoy the same thing you enjoy Tongue

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16-04-2017, 03:58 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 03:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  
SYZ Wrote:I regard the fact that every day of the year, around 16,000 children under the age of 4 will die in sub-Saharan Africa from malnutrition, dehydration, and preventable diseases as an evil thing.
Can I ask you this question:
if God takes care of them what are you going to do?
And these questions:

Is this GOOD FOR YOU to learn to bring relief to those who suffer? is this GOOD FOR YOU to share with those who don't have what you have?
What does it do to you when you help hungry and needy out of love and compassion? what does it do to those who see your love and sacrifice of your time, your money, your talents?

I like the first part.

What is the second part about?
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16-04-2017, 04:03 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 03:58 PM)AB517 Wrote:  
(16-04-2017 03:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  Can I ask you this question:
if God takes care of them what are you going to do?
And these questions:

Is this GOOD FOR YOU to learn to bring relief to those who suffer? is this GOOD FOR YOU to share with those who don't have what you have?
What does it do to you when you help hungry and needy out of love and compassion? what does it do to those who see your love and sacrifice of your time, your money, your talents?

I like the first part.

What is the second part about?

The second part is about this: when you do good to others it makes you a better person and it brings joy to you and to those whom you serve.
If there are those who suffer and they can't help themselves but you can help them then you are responsible for them. God wants you to learn this responsibility.

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16-04-2017, 04:08 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 03:53 PM)AB517 Wrote:  
(16-04-2017 03:18 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > Inappropriate analogy. God is supposed to be all-loving and all-powerful. Evil cannot exist unless he wills it to exist. Evil does exist. Therefore, God is either a malevolent being, or else he does not exist by reason of self-contradiction.

I don't believe in god. but ...

1) supposed to be all loving so there can't be evil. that's stupid. he can't love and have evil? really? observations say different.

2) all powerful so he must of willed it to exist. all powerful doesn't mean stupid. No evil, no grace. We might as well be oswald.

3) either malevolent or doesn't exists due to self contradiction. well, this is so limited I aint even bothering. Theists can figure their own way around this one.

You seem to be claiming knowledge that we don't, as atheists, don't have. I must say, simple to get around even for the shallowest of theists. This atheists is about the shallowest of theists I know.

> Point #1: Mainstream Christianity defines God as being omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient. By Christianity's own claim, you can't have one attribute without the others.

> Point #2: Grace is irrelevant in this context. Regardless of the reason, if God allows evil to exist, he is not omnibenevolent.

> Point #3: Theists have been hemming and hawing over this dilemma ever since Epicurus wrote his famous riddle. I've yet to see any of them come up with a rational answer.

> I am not claiming knowledge that atheists don't have. I am rationally arguing against the claims which Christians themselves make about God.
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16-04-2017, 04:32 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 03:03 PM)Alla Wrote:  God is always able to prevent evil in the worlds(realities) He organized.
God has this power, ability.
Then he chooses not to stop evil when he can and is BY NECCACITY not omnibenevolent.

(16-04-2017 03:03 PM)Alla Wrote:  When it is necessary to prevent evil He will do it. When it is not necessary He won't
That is not an omnibenevolent god. Do you even know what the word means Alla?

(16-04-2017 03:10 PM)Alla Wrote:  Little child will tell you that shots are evil. They cause fear, pain and suffering. GOOD parent is able to prevent this "evil" but not willing.
Why? Is it because he or she malevolent? This was rhetorical question.
What in the eyes of a child is evil, it is good and right in the eyes of GOOD parent
Well that's idiotic.

Evil is not interchangeable with pain or fear or suffering. It has usage and a definition and it doesn't apply to your labored and ignorant analogy. A parent is not considered to be omnibenevolent as part of their nature, you consider your god to be so and thus he has to be held to a much much higher standard. Your point is even more idiotic when you take into consideration that the parent in your analogy doesn't have the power to wipe out all disease rendering the shot unneccicary.

So ya actually if you have a parent who is capable of getting rid of all disease with a snap of his finger, and furthermore SHOULD do this as a part of his very nature as an omnibenevolent creature, who chooses not to so he can stab his child in the arm with a needle ...... then yes that parent IS malevolent. In fact repeatedly stabbing your children unnecessarily falls under the legal definition of child abuse.

Your god is not preventing his child from getting a little prick in the arm, he is failing to stop rape, murder, slavery, genocide and every other ugly thing that goes on that he both can stop and should have no choice but to stop if he is truly omnibenevolent.
I find you morally repugnant for your implication that allowing the holocaust is the same as vaccinating a child for a parenting standpoint.

(16-04-2017 03:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Julep Wrote:I just want to note that if a four year old dies horribly of cancer to teach somebody a lesson, the question arises: Who is the student in this scenario? The sick child? The parent? Children without cancer?
Everyone is the student in this world. We all learn what it means to be in the world where all kind of bad things happen. We learn what fallen world is all about.

Oh yes, how convenient children dying from cancer is their own fault and not the responsibility of the one person who could stop it instantly with no cost to himself who should be compelled to do it by his very nature.

What I learn from you is that you don't much like having to think for yourself.
What I learn from your description of your god is that you worship a psychopath who is not terribly smart.
What I learn from you again, and again, and again Alla is that you are a boot licking sycophant who doesn't care one tiny bit if your beliefs and actions are actually moral so long as they please your sky-Hitler.


Here is a question for you to hide from: If god is the best parent, the most holy and righteous and loving parent, why are you not raising children by his example? Why are you not having your children raped in front of you while you watch to teach them about this fallen world?

Could it be that deep down past your brainwashing you know that such an action is NOT actually the actions of a good and moral parent?

(16-04-2017 03:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  what is evil in mortal men's s eyes that is not evil in eyes of God.
Ah-fucking-HA!
So you are admitting you worship a god who does not think rape and genocide is evil.

This is the problem you have with your thinking, you believe you have the right answer and you are trying to force the "evidence" to fit that conclusion and you will ignore anything that does not.

1.) God is omnibenevolent, because I have been told that he is by people I trust.
2.) But evil exists in the world and he has the power to stop it.
3.) But he doesn't stop evil when he can despite this being the SINGLE FUCKING REQUIREMENT TO BE OMNIBENEVALENT.
4.) But he MUST be omnibenevolent because the people I trust say he is.

Now, this is the point where a rational person would notice that there is a contradiction between what they have been TOLD God is and what the evidence of reality SHOWS god to be like. What do you do?

5.) Being raped to death must be good for us in the long term, like vaccines are. God must not think raping someone to death is evil.

You have given up your mind and your heart to something vile and malevolent. The day your position requires you to defend the raping to death of people as in any way moral you are an evil human being.

(16-04-2017 03:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  If God believed that He is doing evil He wouldn't be God.
So what you are saying is that an action is only evil if you believe it is. Could god not do something evil and think he was doing good despite it actually being evil?

Fuck sake Alla earlier you said that god has moral choice and could do evil if he wanted to. So what..... does he not have moral agency like you said or would he just magically stop being a god if he did something evil? He does shit that is evil all through the Bible so.....

Wow. It's almost like YOUR SHIT STILL DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

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16-04-2017, 04:46 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 03:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  Is this GOOD FOR YOU to learn to bring relief to those who suffer?
You don't need to learn how to bring relief to those who suffer if no one is fucking suffering you moron. You claim to have a god that can end all suffering but doesn't because we need to learn from suffering which is a problem he can make disappear in an instant rendering the entire lesson fucking pointless.

How do you not understand this? You do not need to learn how to fight cancer if cancer does not exist. If a person existed that had the cure for cancer who told the world he would not share the cure for cancer because he felt the world needed to suffer from cancer to learn a lesson he would be rightly called a monster. Your god is this person, is this monster, only with EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM the world has.

(16-04-2017 03:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  is this GOOD FOR YOU to share with those who don't have what you have?
I don't have to share what I have if no one is lacking what I fucking have! I don't have the cure for cancer and if it is good for a person to share, and God IS a good person (an OMNI-motherfucking-BENEVALENT PERSON) maybe he should fucking share!

Why are we the only ones required to do good while your god can just be an evil son of a bitch? it seems the guy drowning babies has a lot more to learn about being good than I bloody do.

Fuck your shit is stupid.

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