Spin-off of Why I believe
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16-04-2017, 06:02 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
JesseB Wrote:Yea.... why did you let yourself be murdered so your children could be abducted and raped.... and left to starve to death....
JesseB, I don't understand. Honestly. What do you mean? I don't let myself to be murdered.

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16-04-2017, 06:08 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 06:02 PM)Alla Wrote:  
JesseB Wrote:Yea.... why did you let yourself be murdered so your children could be abducted and raped.... and left to starve to death....
JesseB, I don't understand. Honestly. What do you mean? I don't let myself to be murdered.

You said before that "why didn't you feed your kids ect" in your response. However you ignore the reality that shit happens and its not by choice, humans don't control everything. Bad things are NOT a result of "free will" bad things just happen, woman surfer gets half her body chomped off by a shark, survives and continues surfing. The world is a fucked up place, but one thing is for sure. It's not always someones fucking fault. In fact its most often NO ONE's fault. Reality IS. There is no god. This is not some test, that's just silly. and to make that work you are required to deny reality and oversimplify the world. That is wrong.

AH here it is Alla:
"If I was God I would ask all those who have capacity to help those children these questions: why did YOU let all those children to die? Why didn't YOU help them when you could?
I, God, gave you an opportunity to learn something good and you blew it. Now I am taking these children home where they suffer no more."

There is not always someone in a capacity to help those children.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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16-04-2017, 06:09 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 05:59 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(16-04-2017 05:48 PM)Alla Wrote:  If God helps all those people in the world while you, me and many millions of people are capable to help them then God will take from us an opportunity to learn how to be good by helping someone out of love and compassion. It is very important to learn to be compassionate.

Yes, they are good for you personally because when you do them out of love and compassion you experience joy. It is good for you to have joy. If God prevents this evil(hunger and suffering) while you, me and many millions of people have capacity to do this(to prevent hunger and suffering) then we will never learn compassion.

If I was God I would ask all those who have capacity to help those children these questions: why did YOU let all those children to die? Why didn't YOU help them when you could?
I, God, gave you an opportunity to learn something good and you blew it. Now I am taking these children home where they suffer no more.

Yea.... why did you let yourself be murdered so your children could be abducted and raped.... and left to starve to death....

You are oversimplifying the world in order to stuff it into your narrow box of how the world works (according to your god)
And also continuing to deflect the focus from stuff we can blame entirely on god, such as cancer, to things she can blame on humans, such as hunger and violence. Unless she feels that cancer is God trying to make doctors better and therefore doctors are at fault for not yet knowing how to cure cancer. (certainly possible, given the thought processes on display here)
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16-04-2017, 06:15 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 05:48 PM)Alla Wrote:  
SYZ Wrote:"Can you explain Alla why he (your god) lets all those little kids die a painful, drawn-out death? "
If I was God I would ask all those who have capacity to help those children these questions: Why did YOU let all those children to die? Why didn't YOU help them when you could?

Hang on a bit Alla. It's—obviously—not within my power to prevent all those infant deaths. On the one hand you claim your god is omniscient and omnipotent, but on the other hand you're implying it's up to people like me to save them. And your god is apparently not intervening himself. Why not, if he's all powerful, and compassionate? As it is, I donate to UNICEF here in Australia, so what can you suggest I do in a more practical sense?

It wasn't me who "let" those kids die—it was your god who let them be born in the first place (due largely to a lack of prohibitively expensive contraception), and then let them die meaninglessly. Why couldn't he at least make it rain to ease the decades-long drought in the Sahara? Why couldn't he organise any natural immunity against water-borne diseases—considering how many generations he's had to do so?


Quote:I, God, gave you an opportunity to learn something good and you blew it. Now I am taking these children home where they suffer no more.

This is absolute rubbish Alla, and you know it too. It just typifies the "head-in-the-sand" attitude of so many religionists when it comes to the difficult, hard to answer questions. It's ludicrous that you're claiming that all this suffering is due to my not taking up your god's offer of learning something good, and I find it offensive that you choose to speak for your god, and tell me I "blew it".

—Talk about bullshit baffling brains LOL.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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16-04-2017, 06:25 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
JesseB Wrote:There is not always someone in a capacity to help those children.
True. When we realize that we can not do something we start to ask ourselves: is this true that we are not capable? or may be we can and we have to figure it out? we start to search, we start to create something we didn't know could exist. We progress. We become better because we want to help. We want to help because we have compassion and love. When we have compassion and love we KNOW that we are GOOD. It brings us JOY. To have JOY is GOOD.

JesseB Wrote:However you ignore the reality that shit happens and its not by choice, humans don't control everything
How can I ignore such obvious thing?
We suppose to live in the world where all kind of things happen - disasters, diseases, accidents. When we experience those things we have an opportunity to progress and create incredible things. We learn to solve what ones was not possible for us to solve. If God prevents those things how can we progress by learning to solve problems?

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16-04-2017, 06:35 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 06:25 PM)Alla Wrote:  
JesseB Wrote:There is not always someone in a capacity to help those children.
True. When we realize that we can not do something we start to ask ourselves: is this true that we are not capable? or may be we can and we have to figure it out? we start to search, we start to create something we didn't know could exist. We progress. We become better because we want to help. We want to help because we have compassion and love. When we have compassion and love we KNOW that we are GOOD. It brings us JOY. To have JOY is GOOD.

JesseB Wrote:However you ignore the reality that shit happens and its not by choice, humans don't control everything
How can I ignore such obvious thing?
We suppose to live in the world where all kind of things happen - disasters, diseases, accidents. When we experience those things we have an opportunity to progress and create incredible things. We learn to solve what ones was not possible for us to solve. If God prevents those things how can we progress by learning to solve problems?

.... god can't prevent those things. Show me ANY evidence in ANY statistic that even hints that some god, ANY god has ANY effect at all on the world? He doesn't help you because he is only in your head. It's that simple.

So when you start dealing with reality, and you see suffering you can totally learn to help reduce that suffering. You can create an actionable plan. You can really do something, rather than ask the imaginary friend in your mind to do something for you.

Look Alla you're a compassionate empathetic human, I think that does show, despite some of the rather cruel things you say without understanding what exactly you are saying (at times I think you do say some very cruel harmful things without meaning to, I also think you do at least try to avoid that. To be fair that's all anyone can do). Nothing would change with your position. Literally NOTHING if you accept that there is no god and just live your life, value the life you have instead of lying to yourself and saying there's life after death. If anything you'll be more motivated to live THIS life to it's fullest, and to create even more well being and happiness in others.

If you did that one thing would change though... You would make a whole lot more sense. See you aren't a good person because of the bible (and the book of Mormon ect) You are a good person IN SPITE of those books. And to be fair I do think you are a reasonably good person (my own personal opinion). But your religion if you really followed it would ensure you could never be a good person in anyone's eye's except for those in your little circle.

Perhaps that helps you get where I'm coming from.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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16-04-2017, 06:42 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
SYZ Wrote:Hang on a bit Alla. It's—obviously—not within my power to prevent all those infant deaths. On the one hand you claim your god is omniscient and omnipotent, but on the other hand you're implying it's up to people like me to save them. And your god is apparently not intervening himself. Why not, if he's all powerful, and compassionate?
Because this world is a place where we can have an opportunity to learn to serve those who can not help themselves so we can have joy from it. If God takes from us this opportunity then He will do the wrong thing. In my post above I explained that when we know that we can not help it motivates us to look for ways to help. We progress, we become creators of incredible new things and we do it OUT OF LOVE AND COMPASSION. We want to prevent suffering. When we do it and we find solutions we have joy. When we discover and create new things we help others and we have joy.
All those who suffered and died because we were not able to help them will get help from God. They WILL LIVE AGAIN and they will suffer NO more.
This is my hope and my belief.



SYZ Wrote:As it is, I donate to UNICEF here in Australia, so what can you suggest I do in a more practical sense?
I can not suggest anything, only you know if you do enough/all you can.

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16-04-2017, 06:54 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
JesseB Wrote:Show me ANY evidence in ANY statistic that even hints that some god, ANY god has ANY effect at all on the world
You know I can't. But even if I could I wouldn't show you any evidence. I wouldn't do it because it wouldn't change a thing.

JesseB Wrote:See you aren't a good person because of the bible (and the book of Mormon ect)

I agree and I never believed this. I believe that I am good and that every person is good until he or she decides to do evil/horrible things.

JesseB Wrote:You are a good person... (my own personal opinion)
Thank you, JesseB, I have the same opinion about you.

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16-04-2017, 07:01 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
JesseB Wrote:...despite some of the rather cruel things you say without understanding what exactly you are saying (at times I think you do say some very cruel harmful things without meaning
I want to understand. Could you, please, give some examples or at least one example.

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16-04-2017, 07:05 PM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2017 07:08 PM by SYZ.)
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 06:25 PM)Alla Wrote:  We're supposed to live in the world where all kind of things happen - disasters, diseases, accidents. When we experience those things we have an opportunity to progress and create incredible things. We learn to solve what ones was not possible for us to solve. If God prevents those things how can we progress by learning to solve problems?

So you're now saying that something like the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami that killed 250,000 people enabled us to somehow experience a "learning" process that—presumably—would help mankind prevent future earthquakes?

And even more ludicrously, you're claiming that your god does us a favour by actually allowing major, killer earthquakes? Seriously? This is totally absurd, and not even worthy of serious consideration.

And this is also nonsense.....
Quote:All those who suffered and died because we were not able to help them will get help from God. They WILL LIVE AGAIN and they will suffer NO more.

—I'm sorry Alla, but I think you need to step back and have a think about what you're saying—from a standpoint of logic and rationale. Your perspective on the real world is, to say the least, distorted.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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