Spin-off of Why I believe
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-04-2017, 11:29 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
Post Deleted

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-04-2017, 01:11 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
Me, realizing WD is back Big Grin




Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Deesse23's post
17-04-2017, 04:41 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(16-04-2017 03:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-04-2017 02:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  I believe that it is important to learn pleasure and pain,

I agree and enjoy moderate pain coupled with some pleasure.

Upon reflection that's probably not what you were talking about. Tongue

Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me. Wink
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like adey67's post
17-04-2017, 06:45 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 04:41 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(16-04-2017 03:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I agree and enjoy moderate pain coupled with some pleasure.

Upon reflection that's probably not what you were talking about. Tongue

Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me. Wink

> Now that's disturbing. I...I think I'm going to lie down for a few minutes. Blink
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Gwaithmir's post
17-04-2017, 09:00 AM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2017 09:13 AM by Alla.)
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
WiskeyDebates Wrote:I never said that you said that he never interferes, it was merely the only logical conclusion of a god who only interferes with evil when it's against his plan who has evil happening to people as his plan.
Yes, I believe God has evil happening to people as his plan. I also believe that if I didn't accept this plan I would never experienced evil. If every child of God rejected this plan then nobody would ever experience evil. God wouldn't force us. But then we would never become Gods.
I believe that 1/3 of God's children rejected this plan. They will never be born on Earth.
I believe that in pre-mortal existence I chose to experience evil, so, now I get what I chose.

WiskeyDebates Wrote:Not as a lesson, not to teach compassion, but simply because he gets really really mad
Anger of God and anger of mortal men are two different things. Anger of God is not what you think it is.
Anger of mortal men is wrong thing.

WiskeyDebates Wrote:So no god does NOT choose good
what is good?

WiskeyDebates Wrote:Every murder, every rape, since the fall required the Fall to happen and given that every single one of those rapes and murders was part of gods plan....
No murder, no rape was a part of God's plan. Those things are not necessary.
Part of God's plan is that we would obtain mortal physical bodies and we would enter world where we could have new learning experiences and we would be presented with an opportunity to choose between good and evil. It was part of His plan that we had to choose to enter this world. Nobody was forced.
Even though God knew we will make wrong choices God and we did NOT know what those choices would be. Only when we come here we can know for ourselves what choices we are capable of. And God can know this only when we come here. He could predict very well out future choices because God already knew us before we were born here. we lived with Him for a very long time.
If God didn't give us an opportunity to come to this fallen world and to exercise our moral agency then God would do evil thing. Then our God would be God no more.

WiskeyDebates Wrote:If Adam and Eve do NOT fall then gods entire plan of using pain and suffering to teach us can't happen.
Exactly. Then Adam and Eve would live in the garden of Eden forever having no children and no eternal progression. Everything would remain the same.
God wouldn't force them to become mortal/fallen. That would be evil/wrong to force them to live in the world where bad things happen.
But how could Adam and Eve become fallen/mortal? God could not force them. There was only one way. They had to choose to become mortal/fallen.
How can man CHOOSE to become fallen? He has to break at least one eternal law. One law is enough that man can become fallen.
So, God gave them two laws. Now Adam and Eve had an opportunity to choose to obey or to break them.
Adam and Eve did the right thing by choosing to learn good and EVIL so they would become LIKE GODS.
It is GOOD thing to become like Gods. To become Gods is to have eternal progression and it is the highest goal of God that we would become Gods just like Him.
If Adam didn't break the second law he wouldn't be able to obey the first law - to have children. Adam chose more important law. He chose to have children and TO LEAVE his father and to stick with his wife.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-04-2017, 09:08 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
WiskeyDebates Wrote:First off fuck you, that didn't address my question at all.
WiskeyDebates Wrote:Again you psychotic bitch
WD, do you think that a woman who respects herself would want to talk to a guy who tells her "fuck you" or call her "bitch"?
Umm... I don't think so.
I had many abusive relationships in my life. I stay away from jerks like you. I don't think you even know what good is or what evil is.
adios, amigo

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-04-2017, 09:17 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  
WiskeyDebates Wrote:I never said that you said that he never interferes, it was merely the only logical conclusion of a god who only interferes with evil when it's against his plan who has evil happening to people as his plan.
Yes, I believe God has evil happening to people as his plan. I also believe that if I didn't accept this plan I would never experienced evil. If every child of God rejected this plan then nobody would ever experience evil. God wouldn't force us. But then we would never become Gods.
I believe that 1/3 of God's children rejected this plan. They will never be born on Earth.
I believe that in pre-mortal existence I chose to experience evil, so, now I get what I chose.

WiskeyDebates Wrote:Not as a lesson, not to teach compassion, but simply because he gets really really mad
Anger of God and anger of mortal men are two different things. Anger of God is not what you think it is.
Anger of mortal men is wrong thing.

WiskeyDebates Wrote:So no god does NOT choose good
what is good?

WiskeyDebates Wrote:Every murder, every rape, since the fall required the Fall to happen and given that every single one of those rapes and murders was part of gods plan....
No murder, no rape was a part of God's plan. Those things are not necessary.
Part of God's plan is that we would obtain mortal physical bodies and we would enter world where we could have new learning experiences and we would be presented with an opportunity to choose between good and evil. It was part of His plan that we had to choose to enter this world. Nobody was forced.
Even though God knew we will make wrong choices God and we did NOT know what those choices would be. Only when we come here we can know for ourselves what choices we are capable of. And God can know this only when we come here. He could predict very well out future choices because God already knew us before we were born here. we lived with Him for a very long time.
If God didn't give us an opportunity to come to this fallen world and to exercise our moral agency then God would do evil thing. Then our God would be God no more.

WiskeyDebates Wrote:If Adam and Eve do NOT fall then gods entire plan of using pain and suffering to teach us can't happen.
Exactly. Then Adam and Eve would live in the garden of Eden forever having no children and no eternal progression. Everything would remain the same.
God wouldn't force them to become mortal/fallen. That would be evil/wrong to force them to live in the world where bad things happen.
But how could Adam and Eve become fallen/mortal? God could not force them. There was only one way. They had to choose to become mortal/fallen.
How can man CHOOSE to become fallen? He has to break at least one eternal law. One law is enough that man can become fallen.
So, God gave them two laws. Now Adam and Eve had an opportunity to choose to obey or to break them.
Adam and Eve did the right thing by choosing to learn good and EVIL so they would become LIKE GODS.
It is GOOD thing to become like Gods. To become Gods is to have eternal progression and it is the highest goal of God that we would become Gods just like Him.
If God didn't break the second law he wouldn't be able to obey the first law - to have children. Adam chose more important law. He chose to have children and TO LEAVE his father and to stick with his wife.

Alla your responses indicate you missed WD's points entirely. Especially that last one.

It's as though you have many pre formed arguments that are completely contradictory and cancel each other out, yet you have no problem using those arguments in rapid succession, you fail to see the logical inconsistencies. And everyone else here can see them clear as day. And no matter how often people try to point these logical consistencies out you don't see them.

Now I give you the benefit of a doubt with this and chalk it up to some very intensive brainwashing and manipulation. But it can feel quite obtuse, and disingenuous/dishonest and not everyone is going to be inclined to be nice to you the way I am.

I can try to walk you through the flaws, WD already has several times now. Yet you are never going to see it (in fact we all have but... WD is quite a bit more thorough about it. me I'm far too lazy to put as much effort into this as he does) At some point if you want to understand what we are saying, you are going to have to put in the effort yourself and TRY to understand for yourself.

The last person to know they are crazy is the crazy person. When your logical processes are damaged it can be very difficult for you stuck in those broken processes to identify the problem. if you care at all about being honest with yourself (and by extension others), then when people point out that there are flaws in your logic system, then you become obligated to self reflect. Study logical fallacies try to identify them within your own logic system. Study logical structure, and think of how to better apply it. Of course this only matters if you actually care about being honest with yourself. If you are happy lying to yourself then no one can help you.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JesseB's post
17-04-2017, 09:33 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 09:08 AM)Alla Wrote:  
WiskeyDebates Wrote:First off fuck you, that didn't address my question at all.
WiskeyDebates Wrote:Again you psychotic bitch
WD, do you think that a woman who respects herself would want to talk to a guy who tells her "fuck you" or call her "bitch"?
Umm... I don't think so.
I had many abusive relationships in my life. I stay away from jerks like you. I don't think you even know what good is or what evil is.
adios, amigo

Well to be fair WD is treating you exactly the way he would treat a man. If he talked to me like that I would not see it as abusive, and if I was saying the things you've said I would expect people to talk to me like that. This is part of the problem, you don't seem to see what is wrong with the things you say. Some of the stuff you say warrants far more extreme responses than even WD gives you, which is why I've called you out on having harmful ideas. He's kinda doing the same thing just less politely than I am. I'm not obligated to be polite to you the way I do, but I've grown to like you a little bit because at times you can be quite honest about lying to yourself (which isn't something to be all that proud of, but its rare so I kinda like it a bit lol)

Generally people use language like that to wake up your brain, you could start here to understand what I mean. (about 20 min in I think is where he starts talking about swear words or taboo words)




Now this is very different than an abusive partner that lays on such language to beat down, manipulate, and control a partner. Generally when I say don't use fuck in an abusive way I'm referring to the line where you've ceased to be making a worthy point and are just laying it on gratuitously for the sole purpose of being mean, or to shut someone down to the point they can be controlled (methods of abusing people). I can understand how you would prefer to avoid all of this altogether and just avoid people willing to be blunt enough to openly say "fuck you" however those people are not by default wrong in saying it, nor are they by default wrong in what they say (though they could be). It takes thought to determine the difference, and if they are forced to resort to such extreme measures to get you to think, then perhaps you are the one in the wrong here.

And let me remind you, we've all pointed out that some of the things you've said are highly deserving of such response (check my posts talking about child rape and the bible and keep reading them until it clicks if you want to know what I mean). Trust me I wanted to be just as mean to you about it when you said that.

Finally WD isn't trying to entice you, you've chosen to come here and say the things you do. WD isn't trying to "convert" you, he's just calling you out when he sees bullshit. The one who fails repeatedly to know what good/evil is appears to be you. Often.

Of course this is only what I think, and I could be wrong, but I suspect I am not.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JesseB's post
17-04-2017, 10:01 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
Whats worse? Abusing someone else by calling him/her names because his/her statements show how devoid of humanity he/she is? Being devoid of humanity by abusing every victim in history of rape, genocide and murder, by defending genocide, rape, and murder? Make your choice! Drinking Beverage

I have made mine.

I find it particular enlightening that someone being so devoid of humanity is claiming that other people allegedly dont know what good and evil is. This is the ultimate irony.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Deesse23's post
17-04-2017, 10:02 AM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2017 10:09 AM by Alla.)
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
JesseB Wrote:This is part of the problem, you don't seem to see what is wrong with the things you say.

Let's say you are correct, I don't see what you all see. What would be the right thing for you, guys, to do?
I think that there are two options:
1) try to help me to see; but try with patience and kindness.

If patience and kindness are not your virtues then option
2) stop discussing with me this subject. It is a waste of time to make me to do what I am not capable of.
BTW, this(option #2) also would be kind thing to do.
Most importantly it would be GOOD/RIGHT thing to do.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: