Spin-off of Why I believe
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17-04-2017, 10:07 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 10:01 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Whats worse? Abusing someone else by calling him/her names because his/her statements show how devoid of humanity he/she is? Being devoid of humanity by abusing every victim in history of rape, genocide and murder, by defending genocide, rape, and murder? Make your choice! Drinking Beverage

I have made mine.

I find it particular enlightening that someone being so devoid of humanity is claiming that other people allegedly dont know what good and evil is. This is the ultimate irony.

Second is worse but it doesn't make WD a better person. He is still little coward man.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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17-04-2017, 10:18 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
TO JESSEB

WD last point was this:
"you're arguing that standing by and allowing mass rape is a form of justice."

My response to this point: "No, this is not what I am arguing".
It seems that I don't understand him and he doesn't understand me.

The only reason why I said that God is Justice and not only Mercy was because WD more than once was making this point that God is all-loving.
God is NOT all-loving, I don't even know what it means

English is my second language.
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SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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17-04-2017, 10:28 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 10:02 AM)Alla Wrote:  
JesseB Wrote:This is part of the problem, you don't seem to see what is wrong with the things you say.

Let's say you are correct, I don't see what you all see. What would be the right thing for you, guys, to do?
I think that there are two options:
1) try to help me to see; but try with patience and kindness.

If patience and kindness are not your virtues then option
2) stop discussing with me this subject. It is a waste of time to make me to do what I am not capable of.
BTW, this(option #2) also would be kind thing to do.
Most importantly it would be GOOD/RIGHT thing to do.

Premise 1 is incorrect. We are not obligated to show you patience or kindness, if someone (like me, cause I generally do treat you with patience and kindness) does choose to do so, it is a gift. A gift you've demonstrated many times that you likely aren't deserving of. Please understand I'm just this way, I don't consider it to be a good thing that I'm this way, it generally causes me a great deal of pain to be kind to people who don't deserve it. You've done nothing special, it is my choice. And one I am fully capable of changing should I desire (I mean, I'm sure you've seen me be pretty mean to people on here before so you know what i mean). But my point remains, your expectation that people are obligated (or should) be nice to you is not correct. Fake/phony politeness isn't "good" or "right" so no.

Premise 2 is incorrect. We are not obligated to stop anything. How do I put this, this is our place. Our house if you will. By extension we live and play by our rules (or the house rules if you will, but The Thinking Atheist would imply that this place is by design likely to be a favorable place for people who happen to be Atheists, if that makes sense). It is perfectly acceptable for you to play by "our rules" here, you wanna say fuck you to WD? Sure I got NO problem with that. Though I would encourage you to look past your emotions here and try to think really hard about what he's really saying. His message could help you more than you realize, and that's the problem with assuming everyone who talks politely to you is being kind and loving and helpful to you, and assuming everyone that says fuck you is trying to harm you. WD may be offering you more kindness than anyone who's ever told you "I care about you."

Frodo Baggins "I think a servant of the Enemy would look fairer and feel fouler."

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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17-04-2017, 10:32 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 10:18 AM)Alla Wrote:  TO JESSEB

WD last point was this:
"you're arguing that standing by and allowing mass rape is a form of justice."

My response to this point: "No, this is not what I am arguing".
It seems that I don't understand him and he doesn't understand me.

The only reason why I said that God is Justice and not only Mercy was because WD more than once was making this point that God is all-loving.
God is NOT all-loving, I don't even know what it means

His point is, your argument even though you don't realize it DOES say that. YOU just don't realize it. I've pointed this EXACT same thing out too several times now. I've suggested you drop that really bullshit position. No reasonable theist would make that argument because they know exactly what WD AND I have pointed out to you (several times now)

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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17-04-2017, 10:33 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
TO JESSEB

WD said:" You are trying to fit the god you believe in, one that would drown babies "
Yes, I believe in God who would drown babies.
But I also believe that when He did this He made sure that their spirits were gone before their already dead bodies were drown so they didn't have to suffer. We are born in mortal bodies, we all have to die sooner or later. This is part of the plan - to experience physical death. Those who left this earth in young age during flood were saved from their evil parents.

WD said:"You worship a god that thinks having rape victims is more important than not having rape and you view this sentiment as being morally superior."
I don't believe that God thinks this.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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17-04-2017, 10:36 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 10:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  TO JESSEB

WD said:" You are trying to fit the god you believe in, one that would drown babies "
Yes, I believe in God who would drown babies.
But I also believe that when He did this He made sure that their spirits were gone before their already dead bodies were drown so they didn't have to suffer. We are born in mortal bodies, we all have to die sooner or later. This is part of the plan - to experience physical death. Those who left this earth in young age during flood were saved from their evil parents.

WD said:"You worship a god that thinks having rape victims is more important than not having rape and you view this sentiment as being morally superior."
I don't believe that God thinks this.

Repeating yourself doesn't change my point. I get that you THINK you do not believe this, yet your arguments DO support what WD said. If you don't believe it then you need to change your arguments. You need to realize you are holding up beliefs that are contradictory to other beliefs and he is pointing that out. So am I. You can't hold both beliefs or someone is going to call you out for this bullshit.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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17-04-2017, 10:48 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 10:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, I believe in God who would drown babies.

The issue is that you are worshipping and defending a god who drowns babies.

(17-04-2017 10:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  But I also believe that when He did this He made sure that their spirits were gone before their already dead bodies were drown so they didn't have to suffer.

That is utter and complete nonsense. First of all, the flood did not, could not, have happened.

Secondly, there are children suffering and dying now. Would you walk into a pediatric oncology ward and tell the parents that their children weren't suffering?

(17-04-2017 10:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  Those who left this earth in young age during flood were saved from their evil parents.

Saved from the evil parent drowning them? We are supposedly god's beloved children are we not?

Essentially, the babies are better off, since the serial killer drowned them, saving them from their evil parents. Now they get to spend eternity with the serial killer, praising him for his actions.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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17-04-2017, 10:51 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
I'd be curious to know more about you, Alla. It could help me understand some of the provocatively tone deaf things you say. I know you say English is your second language and that explains it to some degree. But do you have trouble empathizing with others more generally? I think we'd all cut you some slack if you have a diagnosed condition.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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17-04-2017, 10:59 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 10:48 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(17-04-2017 10:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, I believe in God who would drown babies.

The issue is that you are worshipping and defending a god who drowns babies.

(17-04-2017 10:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  But I also believe that when He did this He made sure that their spirits were gone before their already dead bodies were drown so they didn't have to suffer.

That is utter and complete nonsense. First of all, the flood did not, could not, have happened.

Secondly, there are children suffering and dying now. Would you walk into a pediatric oncology ward and tell the parents that their children weren't suffering?

(17-04-2017 10:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  Those who left this earth in young age during flood were saved from their evil parents.

Saved from the evil parent drowning them? We are supposedly god's beloved children are we not?

Essentially, the babies are better off, since the serial killer drowned them, saving them from their evil parents. Now they get to spend eternity with the serial killer, praising him for his actions.

Essentially, the babies are better off, since the serial killer drowned them, saving them from their evil parents. Now they get to spend eternity with the serial killer, praising him for his actions.

I believe this is a misunderstanding of Alla's theology. My understanding, from what she's described, is that the dead babies get to decide to go back to earth at another time--minus any memory of making this decision--so that they can so some more of that wonderful "learning." Then when they die the next time, they get to be dictator-gods, ruling over their own misery-filled planets. In the same way that abusive parents can raise kids who turn into abusers themselves, her God is grooming his own set of sadistic serial killer/creators.
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17-04-2017, 11:05 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 10:59 AM)julep Wrote:  I believe this is a misunderstanding of Alla's theology. My understanding, from what she's described, is that the dead babies get to decide to go back to earth at another time--minus any memory of making this decision--so that they can so some more of that wonderful "learning." Then when they die the next time, they get to be dictator-gods, ruling over their own misery-filled planets. In the same way that abusive parents can raise kids who turn into abusers themselves, her God is grooming his own set of sadistic serial killer/creators.

Shocking

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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