Spin-off of Why I believe
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-04-2017, 11:09 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(10-04-2017 08:22 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 07:52 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Are you and SeaJay a couple?

No, we're not a couple but I am a couple with my beautiful wife who I am blessed to share life together.

Yabut, no Boo Boo ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-04-2017, 11:21 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 10:28 AM)JesseB Wrote:  
(17-04-2017 10:02 AM)Alla Wrote:  Let's say you are correct, I don't see what you all see. What would be the right thing for you, guys, to do?
I think that there are two options:
1) try to help me to see; but try with patience and kindness.

If patience and kindness are not your virtues then option
2) stop discussing with me this subject. It is a waste of time to make me to do what I am not capable of.
BTW, this(option #2) also would be kind thing to do.
Most importantly it would be GOOD/RIGHT thing to do.

Premise 1 is incorrect. We are not obligated to show you patience or kindness, if someone (like me, cause I generally do treat you with patience and kindness) does choose to do so, it is a gift. A gift you've demonstrated many times that you likely aren't deserving of. Please understand I'm just this way, I don't consider it to be a good thing that I'm this way, it generally causes me a great deal of pain to be kind to people who don't deserve it. You've done nothing special, it is my choice. And one I am fully capable of changing should I desire (I mean, I'm sure you've seen me be pretty mean to people on here before so you know what i mean). But my point remains, your expectation that people are obligated (or should) be nice to you is not correct. Fake/phony politeness isn't "good" or "right" so no.

Premise 2 is incorrect. We are not obligated to stop anything. How do I put this, this is our place. Our house if you will. By extension we live and play by our rules (or the house rules if you will, but The Thinking Atheist would imply that this place is by design likely to be a favorable place for people who happen to be Atheists, if that makes sense). It is perfectly acceptable for you to play by "our rules" here, you wanna say fuck you to WD? Sure I got NO problem with that. Though I would encourage you to look past your emotions here and try to think really hard about what he's really saying. His message could help you more than you realize, and that's the problem with assuming everyone who talks politely to you is being kind and loving and helpful to you, and assuming everyone that says fuck you is trying to harm you. WD may be offering you more kindness than anyone who's ever told you "I care about you."

Frodo Baggins "I think a servant of the Enemy would look fairer and feel fouler."
To be fair to Alla mate,she has made significant progress in regards her interpersonal skills recently going from minus 20 something to plus 6. I only hope this exchange doesn't continue to deteriorate. I suspect that her recent posts are defensive because subliminally she does understand that WD has annihilated her arguments and she knows her thinking is flawed which creates internal conflict.
Maybe if folks took some time to step back and bring the conversation back on to an even keel ?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like adey67's post
17-04-2017, 11:22 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 10:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  TO JESSEB

But I also believe that when He did this He made sure that their spirits were gone before their already dead bodies were drown so they didn't have to suffer. We are born in mortal bodies, we all have to die sooner or later. This is part of the plan - to experience physical death. Those who left this earth in young age during flood were saved from their evil parents.

Where do you get this nonsense?

That simply isn't in the bible, does Joey's Book of Bullshit add another chapter to the flood myth with this in it?

It's stuff like this where most of us on this forum say- Stop! I want off the crazy train, there is no where else to go with this god concept, it is morally and intellectually bankrupt, trying to explain or defend it is not helping here.

The best thing to do is say- yeah, that's pretty disgusting and not defend it.

That would show deference to those of us that reject this nonsense, you can't salvage it with these ham-fisted explanations, recognize this and move in.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like TheInquisition's post
17-04-2017, 11:56 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 10:02 AM)Alla Wrote:  
JesseB Wrote:This is part of the problem, you don't seem to see what is wrong with the things you say.

Let's say you are correct, I don't see what you all see. What would be the right thing for you, guys, to do?
I think that there are two options:
1) try to help me to see; but try with patience and kindness.

If patience and kindness are not your virtues then option
2) stop discussing with me this subject. It is a waste of time to make me to do what I am not capable of.
BTW, this(option #2) also would be kind thing to do.
Most importantly it would be GOOD/RIGHT thing to do.

Not capable? You sell yourself short. Your NOT WILLING. You find too much comfort in you nonsense beliefs to let any rational line of thinking in.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like kemo boy's post
17-04-2017, 11:57 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 10:07 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(17-04-2017 10:01 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Whats worse? Abusing someone else by calling him/her names because his/her statements show how devoid of humanity he/she is? Being devoid of humanity by abusing every victim in history of rape, genocide and murder, by defending genocide, rape, and murder? Make your choice! Drinking Beverage

I have made mine.

I find it particular enlightening that someone being so devoid of humanity is claiming that other people allegedly dont know what good and evil is. This is the ultimate irony.

Second is worse but it doesn't make WD a better person. He is still little coward man.

So, you're redefining "coward" now? You've already redefined good and evil beyond recognition...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like kemo boy's post
17-04-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 11:56 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  
(17-04-2017 10:02 AM)Alla Wrote:  Let's say you are correct, I don't see what you all see. What would be the right thing for you, guys, to do?
I think that there are two options:
1) try to help me to see; but try with patience and kindness.

If patience and kindness are not your virtues then option
2) stop discussing with me this subject. It is a waste of time to make me to do what I am not capable of.
BTW, this(option #2) also would be kind thing to do.
Most importantly it would be GOOD/RIGHT thing to do.

Not capable? You sell yourself short. Your NOT WILLING. You find too much comfort in you nonsense beliefs to let any rational line of thinking in.

> Why bother at this point? As Thomas Paine so eloquently put it, trying to have a rational discussion/debate with someone who has abjured the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. Dodgy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Gwaithmir's post
17-04-2017, 06:21 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 10:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, I believe in God who would drown babies.

In an enlightened 21st century (and in case you didn't know it) this would be considered a disgusting moral perversion.

Quote:But I also believe that when He did this He made sure that their spirits were gone before their already dead bodies were drown so they didn't have to suffer.

This is just absurdist nonsense, or a sign of incipient psychosis.

Quote:Those who left this earth in young age during flood were saved from their evil parents.

So your god killed all those kids to save them from being killed? Yeah... that sure makes sense!

Quote:I don't believe that God thinks this.

And you know how your god thinks by what means? Daily tweets maybe?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like SYZ's post
17-04-2017, 11:13 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, I believe God has evil happening to people as his plan.
Then your god is evil. It's entirely possible to teach a lesson without resorting to inflicting pain, or resorting to deliberate malevolence. If the only plan your god can come up with to teach a lesson is through a liberal application of suffering your god is both an idiot and a monster.

(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  I also believe that if I didn't accept this plan I would never experienced evil.
Yes yes yes, I am already aware that you think that a baby who is raped to death has more culpability in being raped to death because you think it ultimately chose that itself than the god who designed the system that allows (and according to you requires) babies to be raped, and who could stop it in an instant at no cost to himself. I do not need to be reminded of how disgusting your moral depravity is, I can only mentally vomit so much.

(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  If every child of God rejected this plan then nobody would ever experience evil.
Then not only did god make EXCLUSIVELY stupid children he is still evil because the only reason anyone HAS to experience evil is because god created a system that required it. he makes the game, he makes the rules and the rules he came up with for non-gods to become gods REQUIRES evil.

In an infinity of possible plans he could have come up with he specifically CHOSE to create a plan that requires and producess raped children. That, you fucking idiot, is a textbook example of evil.

(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  God wouldn't force us.
Well, that's just bullshit there are dozens of examples of god forcing people to do all kinds of things very often for shitty stupid reasons in the Bible. You are just making up shit.

(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  But then we would never become Gods.
Why the fuck not? It's a made up rule and an evil one at that. That's just your god saying "Hey you need to learn love and compassion to be a god like me, the guy who is going to teach you with murder and rape."

That is the real problem your dumbass beliefs have. If love and compassion are requirements to being a god then your god can't be a god because he consistently fails to demonstrate love and compassion. Your gods rules magic him out of existence as a truly compassionate creature could never design a system as evil as he did let alone sit back and watch it without a problem.

You are still trying to fit the square peg of a genocidal lunatic into the round hole of a loving god. It's never gonna work.

(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  I believe that 1/3 of God's children rejected this plan. They will never be born on Earth.
Ya lets talk about those who will never be born. Approximately 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Many of those miscarriages occur before the mother is even aware she is pregnant.
So under your belief system 50% of people opting to come here will die having not learned love and compassion. Of that 50% a sizeable portion of those deaths won't even serve as a lesson to the parents or anyone else because they won't even know it happened. So what happens to the baby who died? Do they become gods? I don't think they can as they never learned love or compassion. Do they get to go again? Into the same 50/50 crap shoot?
Those are just the ones that survive to be born, up until around the 1900's the child mortality rate was estimated to be between 30% or 50%. Meaning as many as half would die before they reached the age of reason where they could develop a real understanding of compassion and why it is good.
I'm not even gonna include the people who are sociopathic or psychopathic who were born physically unable to understand compassion (born into a system that according to you learning compassion is the entire point).

So let us look at this system:
  • God has developed a program for teaching compassion and creating other gods.
  • Fully half of the volunteers in this program will die having learned nothing.
  • Of the half that survived birth half would die before developing a proper understanding of compassion.
  • The quarter of original volunteers for this program that were "lucky" enough to survive long enough to get to the point where they COULD learn genuine love and compassion only a fraction of them actually will. First, they will have to be tortured though.
  • So of the fraction of the fraction of the fraction of the fraction of people that will graduate this program will become gods where, one has to assume based on the behavior of their god, will go on to create equally evil programs.
  • Except that shit wait a bunch of them won't because god decided to make them physically incapable of feeling or knowing compassion because he's an asshole that way.
  • ]So of the fraction of the fraction of the fraction of the fraction of a fraction of a fraction of people who COULD become gods actually will. After they have been tortured enough.

Here is where this story gets really fucking funny though. Because if the program ACTUALLY works and does ACTUALLY produce gods who are ACTUALLY moral, loving, and compassionate...then they must look at gods system and actions and conclude that they are evil. So every single compassionate god your god creates will instantly be in opposition to him.

(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  I believe that in pre-mortal existence I chose to experience evil, so, now I get what I chose.
What a bunch of bullshit. Tell me Alla have you ever expressed that worldview to an 11-year-old girl sitting in a hospital waiting on a rape kit while her own father waits in a jail cell? You ever taken a stroll through a childrens cancer ward and told everyone there they were just getting what they asked for?

When I take what you CLAIM to believe and apply it to the real world it makes it crystal clear that you are full of shit and don't actually act in accordance with what you say you believe and are jsut trying to score points in this debate.

(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  Anger of God and anger of mortal men are two different things. Anger of God is not what you think it is.
Anger of mortal men is wrong thing.

This is one of the best examples of what I was talking about before. You have a conclusion (god always does good) and you are willing to bend over backward to maintain that conclusion even up to the point of arguing that god losing his temper and murdering people in a rage is a good thing.

You are getting a fuck you again because the "Anger of God" is EXACTLY what I think it is because he fucking spells out why he is doing it at great length. Over and over again. It's not some mystery beyond human understanding, he sits us down and tells us exactly why he's murdering people left right and center.

Jealousy.
Vanity.
Because the creatures he gave free will to are not using their free will in the ONE very specific way he wants the too.
As a motherfucking BET.
Because he likes the smell of their burning corpse.

That's just to name a few. Teaching a lesson seems to almost NEVER be the motivation behind his actions.


(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  what is good?
It has a definition go look it up. It doesn't include using genocide as a fucking lesson plan.


(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  No murder, no rape was a part of God's plan. Those things are not necessary.
This is a direct contradiction of what you said earlier. A DIRECT contradiction to the very first fucking thing you said in this post.

Rape and murder are NOT necessary to his plan yet he allows them to happen anyway making him fucking evil.

(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  Even though God knew we will make wrong choices God and we did NOT know what those choices would be.
So he didn't even know if his idiot plan could or would even work to create a single god? Fuck sake.

(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  Only when we come here we can know for ourselves what choices we are capable of.
Well...the fraction of people who live long enough anyway. But still congratulations! By defending lazy, stupid, genocidal, dictator you have your answer.

You chose evil.



(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  He could predict very well out future choices because God already knew us before we were born here.
Facepalm Then the test is pointless you dummy.


(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  If God didn't give us an opportunity to come to this fallen world and to exercise our moral agency then God would do evil thing. Then our God would be God no more.
Then your god is not god anymore on account of the dozens of other evil things he does. INCLUDING THE MULTIPLE TIMES IN THE BIBLE WHERE HE DIRECTLY INTERFEREs WITH PEOPLES MORAL AGENCY.

(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  
WiskeyDebates Wrote:If Adam and Eve do NOT fall then gods entire plan of using pain and suffering to teach us can't happen.
Exactly.
Right so it's not a choice it's a requirement. It HAS top happen and god will make it happen.

(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  Then Adam and Eve would live in the garden of Eden forever having no children and no eternal progression.
Making progression towards a meat grinder isn't a good thing. Oh, you better believe the Adam and Eve thing is gonna be brought up later by me.

(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  God wouldn't force them to become mortal/fallen.
The only way gods plan can be 100% sure to work is if he IS willing to force them to.



(17-04-2017 09:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  But how could Adam and Eve become fallen/mortal? God could not force them. There was only one way. They had to choose to become mortal/fallen.
How can man CHOOSE to become fallen? He has to break at least one eternal law. One law is enough that man can become fallen.
So, God gave them two laws. Now Adam and Eve had an opportunity to choose to obey or to break them.
Adam and Eve did the right thing by choosing to learn good and EVIL so they would become LIKE GODS.
It is GOOD thing to become like Gods. To become Gods is to have eternal progression and it is the highest goal of God that we would become Gods just like Him.
If Adam didn't break the second law he wouldn't be able to obey the first law - to have children. Adam chose more important law. He chose to have children and TO LEAVE his father and to stick with his wife.
There is so much stupid in this I'm not even sure where to start, so I'll just list some.

1.) God creates a system where you breaking a single law condemns not just you but literally every single person that will ever exist who had no hand in breaking that law. (Unjust, irrational, stupid, disproportionate punishment)

2.) He writes two laws which are in conflict with each other in such a way that to follow the first breaks the second and to follow the second breaks the first. (Unjust, irrational, stupid, and malevolent)

3.) He gives these laws to two people who have no idea that following ANY laws is right because he's designed them to only know that violating the law is wrong AFTER they have violated the law. (Unjust, irrational, stupid, malevolent, and actual fucking entrapment)

4.) It's a good thing to become like gods, god wants us to be gods in fact it is his HIGHEST GOAL .....but one of his laws is to forbid the VERY thing that would cause this desired outcome. (Irrational, stupid, and counter-productive)


If Adam and Eve don't eat the fruit then they "live in the garden of Eden forever having no children" except that that violates the first law so they fall.
If Adam and Eve do eat the fruit then they violate the second law so they fall.

That's not a choice and you motherfuckin' know it.


(17-04-2017 09:08 AM)Alla Wrote:  WD, do you think that a woman who respects herself would want to talk to a guy who tells her "fuck you" or call her "bitch"?
Ahahaha! Oh look! We finally found something that does trigger your moral indignation. Something you find morally reprehensible.
Was it......sitting back and letting rapes you could stop happen? No no..doesn't seem to be.
Was it........using baby corpses to teach people how to love? No no....you seem fine with that.
Was it...putting the the blame and responsibility for a child getting cancer on the fucking child? Nope...nope that seems perfectly moral to you.

Oooooooh, I see. What really bothers you morally is bad words on the internet. Well then here:
[Image: BUTTHURT-REPORT.jpg]
Fill that out in triplicate then shove them up your ass you deranged cunt.


(17-04-2017 09:08 AM)Alla Wrote:  I had many abusive relationships in my life.
Yes, and you happen to call one of them god. Drinking Beverage

Also, fuck you for trying to reframe this conversation as an "abusive man picking on a poor defenseless woman", as you know good and well that's not what's going on. You would be hard pressed to find another woman I've been anything but polite and cordial to......who didn't spout dishonest, stupid, morally bankrupt garbage like you do.
Likewise, you would be hard pressed to find a guy on this forum I haven't been respectful towards......who didn't spout dishonest, stupid, morally bankrupt garbage like you do.

(17-04-2017 09:08 AM)Alla Wrote:  I stay away from jerks like you.
Try getting an education or at least keeping your stupid to yourself that's generally a good way to get me to leave you alone.

(17-04-2017 09:08 AM)Alla Wrote:  I don't think you even know what good is or what evil is.
Ya if you think you can make this claim with a straight face then every single thing I've said over the last two days has gone through one ear and out another to the surprise of no one.

Take a look back and see which one of us was defending the murder of babies as good. Which one of us thinks genocide is an acceptable teaching tool.

Wasn't. Fucking. Me. Asshole. Drinking Beverage

(17-04-2017 10:02 AM)Alla Wrote:  Let's say you are correct, I don't see what you all see. What would be the right thing for you, guys, to do?
I think that there are two options:
1) try to help me to see; but try with patience and kindness.

Oh, what a crock of shit. This has been tried in the past by many people. Including me. It doesn't bloody work.

For example: Adam and eve. You and I had a conversation about Adam and Eve, specifically the fact they didn't exist. I provided you with evidence, reasoned arguments, links to websites on genetics, archeology, biology proving my case and I did it all with respect and patience.

Do you remember what you did after that cause I sure as fuck do. You ignored it completely and continued to argue as if they were real people when it is a demonstrated FACT they are not. A bit of dishonesty which you continue to do even today.

So let me be clear as far as I am considered you lost the right to demand anyone's patience the day you demonstrated that you don't care about what's real or true and were willing to be dishonest to maintain your beliefs.

(17-04-2017 10:07 AM)Alla Wrote:  He is still little coward man.

I've stopped 100% of the rapes murders I know I could have stopped, which is infinitely more than your god can say. I'm not the one who refuses to answer basic questions honestly, I'm not the one running for a hard debate, I'm not the one make excuses for why drowning babies is a good thing in the end, I'm not the one licking the boots of her own personal Hitler.

There is a coward in this thread sister and it sure as fuck ain't me.

(17-04-2017 10:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, I believe in God who would drown babies.
Which makes you and him evil.

(17-04-2017 10:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  But I also believe that when He did this He made sure that their spirits were gone before their already dead bodies were drown so they didn't have to suffer. We are born in mortal bodies, we all have to die sooner or later. This is part of the plan - to experience physical death. Those who left this earth in young age during flood were saved from their evil parents.
Another fine example of you making shit up as you go to deal with your cognitive dissonance.

(17-04-2017 10:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  WD said:"You worship a god that thinks having rape victims is more important than not having rape and you view this sentiment as being morally superior."
I don't believe that God thinks this.
Around and around we go where this shit stop, nobody knows.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 9 users Like WhiskeyDebates's post
18-04-2017, 12:10 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
That is a remarkable wall of text. A very well written thoughtful wall of text... but a remarkably large wall of text none the less WD >.> I generally try to avoid such ginormous responses lol Perhaps I should work on that....

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JesseB's post
18-04-2017, 08:11 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(13-04-2017 02:45 PM)Yogi_Bear Wrote:  
(13-04-2017 11:56 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Since you are taking over for SeaJay and his original thread was about why he believes, I'd like to pose a question to you about what you believe.

How can we reliably distinguish between what you believe about what you call a god, and something that is merely imaginary? When you or another theist tell me about your god that you believe in, I know for certain that I must use my imagination in order to consider it. As far as I can tell, gods are indistinguishable from the imaginary. Something which is indistinguishable from something that is imaginary is imaginary.

First I would like to clarify I wouldn't want this spin-off thread to be seem in any way as taking over or away from SeaJay's thread. It was started at SeaJay's request due to his origin thread morphing into to separate and different ideas about what belief is being presented, I acknowledge my part of the blame for drifting off his OP. Hindsight of a different thread title would have helped. SeaJay's OP, correct me if I mis-speak SeaJay,
was the implication that a large part of his belief was based on fear, and specifically the fear of hell as presented in the Bible was real.

This spin off was more on the positive belief of God and prayer. Again hindsight is 20/20 Sad.

I believe it is quite easy to make a distinction between what I believe about the creator God and something that is merely imaginary. First what would make "something" merely imaginary. I say that if something is always presented and aways accepted by a majority of the people and the majority of the time is a good indication it is merely imaginary. Also if it presents itself as merely imaginary it would be accepted and viewed as merely imaginary. A few examples I would present as meeting what I would think qualifies for an accepted view of what would be merely imaginary would include: the tooth fairy, fairytales, the Easter bunny, Flying Spaghetti Monster ( by self definition) , pink unicorns etc. it can reliably stated then that theses are merely imaginary by the majority of people.

Then what would serve reliably that there is a distinction between the God I believe as not just merely imaginary compaired to those above. The God I believe on is not taught and accepted by the majority of the people the majority of the time as being merely imaginary. The God I believe in does not define Himself as merely imaginary. I acknowledge that there are those who do teach and accept the God I believe as merely imaginary.

There are what I consider to be examples that the God I believe in is distinguished as much more than merely imaginary.

Examples that the God I believe in is not viewed as merely imaginary is:
God is taught that His Son Jesus came to earth. Is this just merely imaginary? The fact that the Georgia calendar marks that date and has been used and acknowledged that point in time with the designation BC and A. D. For hundreds of years to denofe that birth is more than merely imaginary

The founding fathers declared "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." To declare our unalienable rights are endowed on us by a Creator is definitely not viewing the God I believe in as merely imaginary.

Our National Motto "In God We Trust" , a law of the land since 1956 and first appearing on coins in 1864 is anything but merely imaginary

Princeton’s crest still says “Dei sub numine viget,” which is Latin for “Under God she flourishes.” Merely imaginary?

If one simply looks there is a multitude of evidence that the God I believe in is reliably distinguished differently than those above as merely imaginary when compared to fairy tales etc.

A final note, no I'm not saying any of this implies nor is offered, nor claims as proof of God. But is being presented as evidence that there is a multitude of evidence that there is a real distinction between the God I believe in and the other things noted above as merely imaginary.

Also note I acknowledge that for those who believe there is no god as definited as the one I believe in or lack a belief in or any god or gods I realize the above is meaningless other that the distinction noted.

Thank you for answering my question Yogi. Sorry it took me so long to respond but I've been extremely busy with work.

Your method reduces to "people believe in it and are taught it is real instead of imaginary", that's the essence of what you're saying. Unfortunately this is not a reliable method of telling the real from the imaginary. People are incredibly credulous and will believe all sorts of things that aren't true (Christianity, Islam and Hinduism for example). And the number of people that believe something or the strength of their conviction is not a reliable method either. It's fallacious reasoning.

As far as the calendar, this is not a reliable method either. The people who made the calendar were of course believers and what's to stop someone from basing a calendar on something that is merely imaginary? Nothing that I can see. If this were a reliable method then we would be assured that Wodin, Frig and Thor are real since Wednesday, Thursday and Friday are named after them. Better start worshiping them now or else!

Any method for distinguishing the real from the imaginary must necessarily adhere to the primacy of existence principle since it is only on this truth that the distinction can be made. This is why no matter how hard you try, you'll be unable to provide a method that is rational to answer my question and will be forced to resort to fallacious thinking. That is because when you say that your god is real you are contradicting yourself by making use of the primacy of existence while at the same time affirming the primacy of consciousness.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like true scotsman's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: