Spirituality may not be what you think it is
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25-01-2016, 10:11 PM (This post was last modified: 25-01-2016 10:26 PM by DLJ.)
Spirituality may not be what you think it is
"Spirituality is not, as many are led to believe by these old books, limited to supernatural gods, goddesses, karmic possibilities or transcendental rituals."

This article suggests that while theists would choose the latest information available when it comes to making health decisions, that they don't do the same when it comes to their spiritual lives.

From the Article: The Enemies of Knowing

Quote:Spirituality is not, as many are led to believe by these old books, limited to supernatural gods, goddesses, karmic possibilities or transcendental rituals. Spirituality can be anything done in the “spirit” of something larger. You can choose non-violent protest in the spirit of Martin Luther King, for example. You can even live your life in the spirit of mythological religious characters without believing they were ever flesh and bone. Just ask a Christian Atheist.

You can literally live in the spirit of anyone and everyone you’ve ever learned something from, not just from one book, or even from one thinker or philosopher. When you can apply the best practices of multiple schools of thought, regardless of – and especially in spite of – your own affiliations, that’s some serious spirituality right there.
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25-01-2016, 10:33 PM
RE: Spirituality may not be what you think it is
Welcome to TTA.

Just FYI, on approving your posts I edited out the link ('cos we have a rule about that) and replaced it with the longer quote.

In the article it mentioned that the "tides come in, tides go out" comment was during a conversation with Richard Dawkins ... it was not ... it was David Silverman.

Cheers

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25-01-2016, 10:47 PM
RE: Spirituality may not be what you think it is
(25-01-2016 10:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Welcome to TTA.

Just FYI, on approving your posts I edited out the link ('cos we have a rule about that) and replaced it with the longer quote.

In the article it mentioned that the "tides come in, tides go out" comment was during a conversation with Richard Dawkins ... it was not ... it was David Silverman.

Cheers

He said it in the Dawkins interview, too.

http://youtu.be/2FARDDcdFaQ

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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25-01-2016, 11:30 PM
RE: Spirituality may not be what you think it is
(25-01-2016 10:47 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 10:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Welcome to TTA.

Just FYI, on approving your posts I edited out the link ('cos we have a rule about that) and replaced it with the longer quote.

In the article it mentioned that the "tides come in, tides go out" comment was during a conversation with Richard Dawkins ... it was not ... it was David Silverman.

Cheers

He said it in the Dawkins interview, too.

http://youtu.be/2FARDDcdFaQ

Oh yeah. I forgot about that one. Sorry.

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25-01-2016, 11:45 PM
RE: Spirituality may not be what you think it is
Christian atheist?
Didn't we already go through that with another poster?

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26-01-2016, 12:14 AM
RE: Spirituality may not be what you think it is
(25-01-2016 10:11 PM)geegio Wrote:  "Spirituality is not, as many are led to believe by these old books, limited to supernatural gods, goddesses, karmic possibilities or transcendental rituals."

This article suggests that while theists would choose the latest information available when it comes to making health decisions, that they don't do the same when it comes to their spiritual lives.

From the Article: The Enemies of Knowing

Quote:Spirituality is not, as many are led to believe by these old books, limited to supernatural gods, goddesses, karmic possibilities or transcendental rituals. Spirituality can be anything done in the “spirit” of something larger. You can choose non-violent protest in the spirit of Martin Luther King, for example. You can even live your life in the spirit of mythological religious characters without believing they were ever flesh and bone. Just ask a Christian Atheist.

You can literally live in the spirit of anyone and everyone you’ve ever learned something from, not just from one book, or even from one thinker or philosopher. When you can apply the best practices of multiple schools of thought, regardless of – and especially in spite of – your own affiliations, that’s some serious spirituality right there.

Are you saying that every interaction between human beings is spiritual because when you are interacting with others you become apart of something larger than ones self? I suspect yes.

That's awesome, and I can accept the idea being helpful to you as well others.

The Christian atheist...
Are you talking about atheist pastors? Because I know that exists.
Or was it a typo?

http://www.charismanews.com/world/50954-...ant-church

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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26-01-2016, 12:30 AM
RE: Spirituality may not be what you think it is
From the start of Wikipedia's article on spirituality:

Quote:Spirituality may refer to almost any kind of meaningful activity, personal growth, or blissful experience.

Traditionally, spirituality refers to a process of re-formation of the personality but there is no precise definition of spirituality.

Spirituality is a word without definition. If it can refer to pretty much everything, it doesn't really refer to anything.

But yeah, I agree that the traditionalists among theists (and traditionalists in general) see the world too narrowly to recognize many of the opportunities and avenues open to them.
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26-01-2016, 10:42 AM
RE: Spirituality may not be what you think it is
(25-01-2016 11:45 PM)LostLocke Wrote:  Christian atheist?
Didn't we already go through that with another poster?

How about spiritual atheist? I've been called that lol.

You needn't hold any belief in deities, afterlives, or any magical mystical nonsense to grasp that the entirety of everything is connected, to understand that your own lot in life is highly dependent on other circumstances, etc. One need not believe in astrology to experience, in a given moment, the reality that our gravity affects Earth's gravity which affects the Sun's gravity which scales out to the Galaxy, the local cluster, the various superclusters.... and that those distant superclusters are, in fact, directly affecting our own gravity at this very moment. So down the chain it goes... yes, the stars do affect us! And there is wonder in the experience of that. Just as there is wonder in the examination and experience of the microcosm....

No supernatural BS involved. Yet a mindset and bearing that hold at least some resemblance to those typified by 'spirituality'. Smile
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26-01-2016, 11:09 AM
RE: Spirituality may not be what you think it is
(26-01-2016 10:42 AM)coyote Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 11:45 PM)LostLocke Wrote:  Christian atheist?
Didn't we already go through that with another poster?

How about spiritual atheist? I've been called that lol.

You needn't hold any belief in deities, afterlives, or any magical mystical nonsense to grasp that the entirety of everything is connected, to understand that your own lot in life is highly dependent on other circumstances, etc. One need not believe in astrology to experience, in a given moment, the reality that our gravity affects Earth's gravity which affects the Sun's gravity which scales out to the Galaxy, the local cluster, the various superclusters.... and that those distant superclusters are, in fact, directly affecting our own gravity at this very moment. So down the chain it goes... yes, the stars do affect us! And there is wonder in the experience of that. Just as there is wonder in the examination and experience of the microcosm....

No supernatural BS involved. Yet a mindset and bearing that hold at least some resemblance to those typified by 'spirituality'. Smile


Gravity has it's place.

It keeps us and our stuff on the planet.

It keeps our planet in orbit of the sun.

It makes the tides go in, and out...


Past that - it has less to do with your day than a popcorn fart.................


..

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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26-01-2016, 11:34 AM
RE: Spirituality may not be what you think it is
The whole article is more telling but I didn't realize I couldn't post links here (I'm bad at reading directions). I'll post the entire text of the article below.

And you can check out Wikipedia for the definition of Christian Atheist, if that's of any interest. I believe they pick and choose from the teachings of Christ without believing in the supernatural. I know, I know, I don't believe that Christ existed, either. Don't shoot the messenger. Smile Anyway, the article is not about that, it's about theists that are ready to apply modern information to everything but spirituality.

I like the term "spiritual atheist" too. First I've heard of it.

Here's the article if you care to read it.

------------------------

The Enemies of Knowing
Spirituality may not be what you think it is

If you’re the kind of person that can’t hear dissenting opinions without being offended to the point of violent rage, stop reading now. The internet is your oyster and you can have your “beliefs” read back to you in any number of places, most of which you already have bookmarked.

For the rest of you, I’d like to pose a question: Is there one book of advice written thousands of years ago you would trust more than one written more recently?
If you’re about to go under the knife, would you rather your doctor learned from a recent text or from something written in a dead language? Or maybe your child has cancer. Should the doctors adhere to the Galenism embraced in the 1600’s? Subject your child to bloodletting to reestablish their equilibrium? Or would you prefer that doctors follow the best practices of the twenty first century – using tools that couldn’t even be imagined all those years ago?

These are rhetorical questions. I already know your answers. There’s probably no real instance where you’d select an outdated text to a recent one. Heck, you’ll probably update your smart phone next year and the one you have is barely a year old.

You’re not driving a car from 1977 or wearing clothes from 1984. You’re not investing money like it’s 1999 and you’re probably not chain smoking if you’re pregnant, like you may have done anytime before the early 70’s. We’re constantly learning new things and applying them to the important aspects of our life.

So why do so many still base their “spiritual life” on books written thousands of years ago? I’m talking specifically about “holy” books filled with parables and mythologies that many still take literally – as if we learned nothing since they were published.

Truth is we’ve learned a lot since then, including how they were written, rewritten and why. Yet folks still believe these books (and there have been many through the years) are the words of the gods that created everything. Gods that, coincidentally, have a few rules for you to follow, and representatives on Earth that take credit cards.

Alas, knowledge can’t penetrate where it’s not welcome. Ask Bill O’Reilly, who in conversations with David Silverman and Richard Dawkins pointed to changing tides as proof of the existence of God.

“I just don’t think we could have lucked out to have the tides come in, the tides go out, the Sun go up, the Sun go down.” Bill O’Reilly

Of course we do know why the tides go in and out, it’s just that Bill didn’t know, so he points to the sky and says “God did it.” In the same way early shysters pointed to the lightening and said “God is angry. It’s probably something you did.”

Why am I thinking of this stuff? Well, a conversation I overheard recently is stuck in my head. A young girl told her mom she learned that Christ was a Jew. The mother didn’t like this, insisting he was Catholic. A few others chimed in agreeing he was most assuredly Catholic and that Catholicism was, in fact, the first religion. Oy vey.

I was in an awkward position of not wanting to say too much to a child in front of the parents she trusted. So I mumbled one thing or another and concentrated on finishing my beer.

This interaction reminds me that many who feel strongest about religion know the least about it. I don’t believe Christ existed, but I wasn’t about to chime in on that aspect. Nor was I about to explain the difference between Christianity and Catholicism. For me, it was another example of humans relying on this very old book, that very few people have actually read all the way through, instead of applying modern philosophy to child rearing.

And why should they? The same “truths” were told to them, to their parents, their grandparents, and backwards through the endless yawn of history. So of course the enemies of knowing are uninterested in new ideas. They already “know the truth” from these archaic texts, why would they want to hear other explanations. It’s far easier to swallow classical conditioning, even after you’ve learned a fact or two. Just ask a Priest fresh from the seminary where they learn that religious texts are mythologies and not the word of God. While some lose their faith outright, most plow forward, slightly confused about their choices in life and wondering if it’s too late to become an astronaut or join the circus.

I’m not suggesting we burn books or ignore ancient texts. I think understanding the evolution of thought is our imperative. But greater minds than yours or mine have been thinking about this stuff for years, it didn’t stop with the publication of anyone’s holy book. If there’s one ray of sunshine, it’s that the overwhelming majority of humans can read these texts without stoning their neighbors or shooting up concert halls. But we know, all too well, that some can only read the blood on the page.

Spirituality is not, as many are led to believe by these old books, limited to supernatural gods, goddesses, karmic possibilities or transcendental rituals. Spirituality can be anything done in the “spirit” of something larger. You can choose non-violent protest in the spirit of Martin Luther King, for example. You can even live your life in the spirit of mythological religious characters without believing they were ever flesh and bone. Just ask a Christian Atheist.

You can literally live in the spirit of anyone and everyone you’ve ever learned something from, not just from one book, or even from one thinker or philosopher. When you can apply the best practices of multiple schools of thought, regardless of – and especially in spite of – your own affiliations, that’s some serious spirituality right there.
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