Splitting of the self
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13-08-2017, 01:23 PM
RE: Splitting of the self
Interesting stuff, thanks!

So... the two split entities in my example would have no problem both accommodating their past experiences, and it would feel continuous to both. Neither of them are "the same self" as before, as there never really was one to begin with. This last is what I've been suspecting, that's it's more of an internal pragmatic concept.

There's no other way it could go down, really. This also destroys any kind of nonsense about "souls", not that it needs destroying.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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13-08-2017, 03:50 PM
RE: Splitting of the self
(13-08-2017 01:23 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Interesting stuff, thanks!

So... the two split entities in my example would have no problem both accommodating their past experiences, and it would feel continuous to both. Neither of them are "the same self" as before, as there never really was one to begin with. This last is what I've been suspecting, that's it's more of an internal pragmatic concept.

There's no other way it could go down, really. This also destroys any kind of nonsense about "souls", not that it needs destroying.

I came to similar conclusions after closely studying dreaming. With an important part of our brains turned off during dreaming, we are not the same people we are in waking. We have access to some but not all of our personal information, but can't think logically, and can't even realize we are just dreaming most of the time -- no matter how many bizarre and impossible things happen. Such observations knock the continuous, unified soul theory right in the head.
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13-08-2017, 04:01 PM
RE: Splitting of the self
(13-08-2017 11:39 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  That right there is why I favor the primacy of consciousness. It's some sorta meta-linguistic sorta thing. We can't even talk about reality without assuming a consciousness capable of talking about reality. Not that exactly, but something like that. I think I remember reading some Wittgenganger dude talking about something like that some 40 years ago now. Smile

There is no question that our perceptions of reality depend on consciousness, and that those perceptions are in fact largely constructed by our brains and our willfully directed focus. But the most basic question is whether the existence of reality itself depends on consciousness. If so, some sort of God is required to create the world, and I don't think you are really willing to go there.
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13-08-2017, 04:59 PM
RE: Splitting of the self
(13-08-2017 04:01 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  But the most basic question is whether the existence of reality itself depends on consciousness. If so, some sort of God is required to create the world, and I don't think you are really willing to go there.

The reality in which consciousness evolved, (before consciousness existed), can be seen and studies retrospectively, and requires no god.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-08-2017, 05:33 PM
RE: Splitting of the self
(13-08-2017 11:39 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  That right there is why I favor the primacy of consciousness. It's some sorta meta-linguistic sorta thing. We can't even talk about reality without assuming a consciousness capable of talking about reality. Not that exactly, but something like that. I think I remember reading some Wittgenganger dude talking about something like that some 40 years ago now. Smile

That be the dude who attacked Karl Popper with a fireplace poker? Smile

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"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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14-08-2017, 08:20 PM
RE: Splitting of the self
(13-08-2017 01:23 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Interesting stuff, thanks!

So... the two split entities in my example would have no problem both accommodating their past experiences, and it would feel continuous to both. Neither of them are "the same self" as before, as there never really was one to begin with. This last is what I've been suspecting, that's it's more of an internal pragmatic concept.

There's no other way it could go down, really. This also destroys any kind of nonsense about "souls", not that it needs destroying.

This does pose interminable problems for religious concepts of what an individual is. If you ask the question of what happens to someone with Alzheimer's after they die from a Christian perspective? Does what they do when they had a functioning mind count? Even when they don't remember any of it?

Christianity punishes awareness, a child that's unaware is subject to the "age of reason" post-hoc rationalization. They won't go to hell since they are not aware, which conveniently circumvents the atonement concept, but what about those that are brain-damaged later in life and then die? Do they get to go to hell for something that they have no memory or comprehension of?

The human mind is too complex to stuff into a limited and ignorant theological framework.

The concept of subjective and variable individuality undermines the concept of objective mercy and justice.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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