Poll: Do you agree with the Stand Your Ground Laws
Yes. They are good self-defense laws
No. They are unnecessary and often abused and misused
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Stand your ground laws
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25-07-2013, 12:38 PM
RE: Stand your ground laws
(25-07-2013 12:31 PM)Julius Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 01:14 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  I'm waiting for the day when two of these SYG assholes blow each other away.

Well...these two SYG-type guys didn't kill each other, but they did make total ass-clowns of themselves while excercising thier inalienable right to be a douchebag. It's quite a story. I wish I had the video.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/pair-...67661.html

You are making the unwarranted assumption that belief in the rectitude of stand your ground laws makes one aggressive.

Failed logic.

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25-07-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: Stand your ground laws
(25-07-2013 12:31 PM)Julius Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 01:14 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  I'm waiting for the day when two of these SYG assholes blow each other away.

Well...these two SYG-type guys didn't kill each other, but they did make total ass-clowns of themselves while excercising thier inalienable right to be a douchebag. It's quite a story. I wish I had the video.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/pair-...67661.html

That law is made for people like me. I am anything but a fight picking idiot. I am a kind, friendly person.

I am a 60 year old female living alone. I am an easy target without my dog and gun.

I live in an armed and often violent society. If I feel physically threatened by an intruder, I am going to damn well pre-empt his strike. I don't care to become a statistic.

This is not something I think about much, I thought about it some time ago, decided to get the dog and gun, and that is that. I learned to handle the gun, became a good shot, and I have years of training police dogs in my background and know how to handle a police dog properly. Should something happen, I know how to stand my ground and remain unharmed. Case closed.

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25-07-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: Stand your ground laws
(25-07-2013 01:39 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 12:31 PM)Julius Wrote:  Well...these two SYG-type guys didn't kill each other, but they did make total ass-clowns of themselves while excercising thier inalienable right to be a douchebag. It's quite a story. I wish I had the video.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/pair-...67661.html

That law is made for people like me. I am anything but a fight picking idiot. I am a kind, friendly person.

I am a 60 year old female living alone. I am an easy target without my dog and gun.

I live in an armed and often violent society. If I feel physically threatened by an intruder, I am going to damn well pre-empt his strike. I don't care to become a statistic.

This is not something I think about much, I thought about it some time ago, decided to get the dog and gun, and that is that. I learned to handle the gun, became a good shot, and I have years of training police dogs in my background and know how to handle a police dog properly. Should something happen, I know how to stand my ground and remain unharmed. Case closed.

You talk about an "Intruder" as if you are in a home - a place you can't nor shouldn't leave if you are armed and there is an invader. This is not SYG.

Although I like the SYG law from a legal and liability perspective, it does embolden a lot of douchebags who claim that their right to remain in place shouldn't be abridged and that they just had to blow the other guy away because they perceived a threat (most often related to the guy not leaving when he had the opportunity to do so).

Here is a video of a classic SYG arsehole in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKIuZ9NEs4E

Fortunately, the "Stand Your Ground" Hero has been thrown in jail forever. Hey...even in Texas, there are limits to being a gun-toting douchebag.
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25-07-2013, 02:57 PM
RE: Stand your ground laws
I'm not totally enamored with SYG, while I do believe you have a right to defend yourself. I also believe when you take someone's life, it should be investigated thoroughly. I'm not saying SYG allows the person to get off scott free, but if I'm not mistaken, the 22 states that have passed that law, the homocide rates have gone up.

The problem I have, is how do you prove a person was genuinely scared for their life, or justified in their fear? TM shouldn't have attacked him, maybe he was just going to give him an ass-whippin. Does he deserve to be killed for fighting? I have been in fights, most guys I grew up with have been in fights. No one was killed. From what I can see, TM might have been a wanne be tough guy, school has had those guys since, well, probably always. That doesn't make him a killer. According to the defense, GZ was the equivalent to the pillsbury doughboy. Couldn't defend himself. So why pack a gun, and search out criminals? Why not stay in the vehicle and use only the cell phone? He said he was afraid, but he gets out of the car to go looking? I can't disagree with the verdict, because it is possible that TM was trying to kill him. I just don't find it probable. But we will never know.

Also, knowing how to use a gun doesn't mean you know how to assess danger, or when it is appropriate to use the gun. Even if GZ really did fear for his life, doesn't mean his life was in danger. Just like, just because you believe in god, doesn't mean he is real. So I think the chances for a false assumption is raised. Of course some will absolutely be justified, but how to know how many? How many people are killed simply because someone is scared? Obviously there were ways to diffuse the situation with TM, he could of identified himself as a neighborhood watch and he was just checking.He could have apologized for making a mistake, just to give himself time. He didn't do these things because he is not trained. I also have a problem with , if TM really was that much bigger and stronger, how did GZ keep his composure to pull his weapon, from the small of his back and put it to TM's chest,one shot kill? If he can take his head being battered on concrete, and still have his wits, he is pretty tough. So, it is possible, but things don't really add up to me.It's a big grey area in my opinion.
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25-07-2013, 05:19 PM
Re: Stand your ground laws
They only gray area here is all the public speculation and over night law professors rambling about a case they aren't truly informed on, that should have never reached national attention.

Also, "warning" shots are criminal negligence at the least and should be treated as such. A firearm isn't a posturing tool.
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25-07-2013, 05:59 PM
RE: Stand your ground laws
(25-07-2013 05:19 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  They only gray area here is all the public speculation and over night law professors rambling about a case they aren't truly informed on, that should have never reached national attention.

Also, "warning" shots are criminal negligence at the least and should be treated as such. A firearm isn't a posturing tool.

Yeah...but what isn't a Gray Area is how George Zimmerman stalked Trayvon Martin with a gun when there was absolutely no reason to believe that Trayvon Martin was committing a crime, or was about to commit a crime. Then, after George finally follows the kid for so long that he provokes a reaction that he can't handle, he shoots the kid dead.

Those are the facts - and those facts deserve some attention by anyone who would carry a gun.

Carrying a gun does not give one the right to act like a Grade-A Douchebag like Zimmerman acted that night. And I bet you if that mealy-mouthed Zimmerman hadn't been carrying a gun that night, then he wouldn't have been so emboldened and stalked Trayvon.
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25-07-2013, 06:01 PM
RE: Stand your ground laws
(25-07-2013 05:59 PM)Julius Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 05:19 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  They only gray area here is all the public speculation and over night law professors rambling about a case they aren't truly informed on, that should have never reached national attention.

Also, "warning" shots are criminal negligence at the least and should be treated as such. A firearm isn't a posturing tool.

Yeah...but what isn't a Gray Area is how George Zimmerman stalked Trayvon Martin with a gun when there was absolutely no reason to believe that Trayvon Martin was committing a crime, or was about to commit a crime. Then, after George finally follows the kid for so long that he provokes a reaction that he can't handle, he shoots the kid dead.

Those are the facts - and those facts deserve some attention by anyone who would carry a gun.

Carrying a gun does not give one the right to act like a Grade-A Douchebag like Zimmerman acted that night. And I bet you if that mealy-mouthed Zimmerman hadn't been carrying a gun that night, then he wouldn't have been so emboldened and stalked Trayvon.

What also isn't a grey area is that stand your ground was not a factor in the defense.

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25-07-2013, 07:28 PM
RE: Stand your ground laws
(25-07-2013 06:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 05:59 PM)Julius Wrote:  Yeah...but what isn't a Gray Area is how George Zimmerman stalked Trayvon Martin with a gun when there was absolutely no reason to believe that Trayvon Martin was committing a crime, or was about to commit a crime. Then, after George finally follows the kid for so long that he provokes a reaction that he can't handle, he shoots the kid dead.

Those are the facts - and those facts deserve some attention by anyone who would carry a gun.

Carrying a gun does not give one the right to act like a Grade-A Douchebag like Zimmerman acted that night. And I bet you if that mealy-mouthed Zimmerman hadn't been carrying a gun that night, then he wouldn't have been so emboldened and stalked Trayvon.

What also isn't a grey area is that stand your ground was not a factor in the defense.

SYG was certainly not a legal or civil factor...and neither were the so-called "Orders" that Zimmerman got from the 911 Operator - which carry no binding legal obligation, but which Zimmerman seems to have taken heed of anyways (i.e., he seems to have stopped stalking Trayvon at that point). It amazes me how much Bullshit I have seen people inject into the narrative - and it really confuses people.

What bothered me most of all was hearing the way Zimmerman carefully chose his words to the 911 operator so that Trayvon Martin's actions were painted in the worst possible way. One of the first things Zimmerman says to 911 is that, "I think he's on drugs or something...". Now...how the fuck does Zimmerman know that? Did he see Trayvon weaving? Did he smell marijuana smoke? Did he see a needle sticking out of Trayvon's arm? I mean...WTF! And then that mealy-mouthed cocksucker Zimmerman goes on-and-on painting Trayvon to be the Bad Man of the Century. And STALKING HIM!

I can't believe that what Zimmerman did to Trayvon before the shooting wasn't illegal in Florida.
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25-07-2013, 07:33 PM
RE: Stand your ground laws
(25-07-2013 07:28 PM)Julius Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 06:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  What also isn't a grey area is that stand your ground was not a factor in the defense.

SYG was certainly not a legal or civil factor...and neither were the so-called "Orders" that Zimmerman got from the 911 Operator - which carry no binding legal obligation, but which Zimmerman seems to have taken heed of anyways (i.e., he seems to have stopped stalking Trayvon at that point). It amazes me how much Bullshit I have seen people inject into the narrative - and it really confuses people.

What bothered me most of all was hearing the way Zimmerman carefully chose his words to the 911 operator so that Trayvon Martin's actions were painted in the worst possible way. One of the first things Zimmerman says to 911 is that, "I think he's on drugs or something...". Now...how the fuck does Zimmerman know that? Did he see Trayvon weaving? Did he smell marijuana smoke? Did he see a needle sticking out of Trayvon's arm? I mean...WTF! And then that mealy-mouthed cocksucker Zimmerman goes on-and-on painting Trayvon to be the Bad Man of the Century. And STALKING HIM!

I can't believe that what Zimmerman did to Trayvon before the shooting wasn't illegal in Florida.

And none of that has anything to do with SYG laws, the subject of this thread.

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25-07-2013, 08:03 PM
RE: Stand your ground laws
(25-07-2013 07:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 07:28 PM)Julius Wrote:  SYG was certainly not a legal or civil factor...and neither were the so-called "Orders" that Zimmerman got from the 911 Operator - which carry no binding legal obligation, but which Zimmerman seems to have taken heed of anyways (i.e., he seems to have stopped stalking Trayvon at that point). It amazes me how much Bullshit I have seen people inject into the narrative - and it really confuses people.

What bothered me most of all was hearing the way Zimmerman carefully chose his words to the 911 operator so that Trayvon Martin's actions were painted in the worst possible way. One of the first things Zimmerman says to 911 is that, "I think he's on drugs or something...". Now...how the fuck does Zimmerman know that? Did he see Trayvon weaving? Did he smell marijuana smoke? Did he see a needle sticking out of Trayvon's arm? I mean...WTF! And then that mealy-mouthed cocksucker Zimmerman goes on-and-on painting Trayvon to be the Bad Man of the Century. And STALKING HIM!

I can't believe that what Zimmerman did to Trayvon before the shooting wasn't illegal in Florida.

And none of that has anything to do with SYG laws, the subject of this thread.

Actually, it has everything to do with SYG laws. Ever since these SYG laws became enacted, I have seen many gun owner express a militant willingness to advocate doing what is legal ans egotistically satisfying, instead of doing what is wise. As a result, instead of advocating gracefully exiting a potentially volatile situation and letting things cool off, they stress that they are not compelled by law to leave before the other guy gets violent and has to have his brains blown out.

Had George Zimmerman done what us wise - backing off and waiting for the cops - instead of doing what was legal - stalking Trayvon, then Trayvon Martin would be alive today.
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