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01-09-2017, 04:59 AM
Standoff
Very well PUT-IN.

Article: Putin warns North Korea situation on verge of 'large-scale conflict'
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01-09-2017, 05:25 AM
RE: Standoff
(01-09-2017 04:59 AM)Thinker Wrote:  Very well PUT-IN.

Article: Putin warns North Korea situation on verge of 'large-scale conflict'

Very odd that you should post this article this morning. Just last night, I watched a short video of the history behind Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941. The premise was essentially that Japan felt trapped and threatened by economic sanctions and embargoes imposed by the US, and attacked because they felt it was the only way for Japan to survive.

It will be interesting to watch how this plays out with North Korea. Sounds like Putin is basically saying the same thing is occurring now.

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01-09-2017, 05:39 AM
RE: Standoff
(01-09-2017 05:25 AM)reeveseb Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 04:59 AM)Thinker Wrote:  Very well PUT-IN.

Article: Putin warns North Korea situation on verge of 'large-scale conflict'

Very odd that you should post this article this morning. Just last night, I watched a short video of the history behind Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941. The premise was essentially that Japan felt trapped and threatened by economic sanctions and embargoes imposed by the US, and attacked because they felt it was the only way for Japan to survive.

It will be interesting to watch how this plays out with North Korea. Sounds like Putin is basically saying the same thing is occurring now.

The Japanese had six years of oil for peacetime use, or one year for making war. Poor dears felt cheated out of their due empire and decided war was the best, nay only, way to go.

The Norks just want everybody to acknowledge Kim is a god.
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01-09-2017, 05:50 AM
RE: Standoff
(01-09-2017 05:39 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 05:25 AM)reeveseb Wrote:  Very odd that you should post this article this morning. Just last night, I watched a short video of the history behind Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941. The premise was essentially that Japan felt trapped and threatened by economic sanctions and embargoes imposed by the US, and attacked because they felt it was the only way for Japan to survive.

It will be interesting to watch how this plays out with North Korea. Sounds like Putin is basically saying the same thing is occurring now.

The Japanese had six years of oil for peacetime use, or one year for making war. Poor dears felt cheated out of their due empire and decided war was the best, nay only, way to go.

The Norks just want everybody to acknowledge Kim is a god.

Norks?

Big Grin

Henceforth Kim shall be known as " Pork from Nork"


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01-09-2017, 05:57 AM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2017 06:09 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: Standoff
Difference is the Japanese didn't see war against the US as suicide.
I can't be sure how delusional Kim Whatever Whatever is but I find it hard to believe he'd be that out of whack.
I have to see N Korea's missile program as a deterrent.
And for a deterrent to work it has to seem credible.
Sabre rattling on both sides IMO. But that can turn real if somebody fucks up.
Putin benefits from it seeming real IMO.

I really believe that what we have to fear about throwing our weight around is still terrorism and the worst would be state sponsored terrorism.
Pakistan or N. Korea giving a single nuke to ISIS or some other group.
That is IMO a very real possibility and I'd go so far as to call it an eventual likelihood.
Some terrorist group is going to get a nuke.
It's 1940's technology and your average undergrad at MIT or Stamford could build one with ease.
Materials are the challenge and now that those materials are in the hands of Pakistan, N Korea, Iran etc it's a matter of time.
And the way things are going, probably not a lot of time.

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01-09-2017, 08:12 AM
RE: Standoff
(01-09-2017 05:57 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  ...
I really believe that what we have to fear about throwing our weight around is still terrorism and the worst would be state sponsored terrorism.
...

Who is "we"? Who is "our"?

This is an international forum, please be specific.

(01-09-2017 05:57 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  ...
Pakistan or N. Korea giving a single nuke to ISIS or some other group.
...

That makes zero sense.

Both* are heavily indebted to China. China has a history of "Islamic issues" in Xinjiang.

The anti-China groups involved are support by Al Qaeda who are funded by Saudi Arabia and the US.

Why would PAK and NK want to bite the hand that feeds them?

*I'm obviously referencing the governments/leaders here, of course, not e.g. the Pakistan Taliban.

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01-09-2017, 09:30 AM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2017 10:16 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: Standoff
(01-09-2017 08:12 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 05:57 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  ...
I really believe that what we have to fear about throwing our weight around is still terrorism and the worst would be state sponsored terrorism.
...

Who is "we"? Who is "our"?

This is an international forum, please be specific.

(01-09-2017 05:57 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  ...
Pakistan or N. Korea giving a single nuke to ISIS or some other group.
...

That makes zero sense.

Both* are heavily indebted to China. China has a history of "Islamic issues" in Xinjiang.

The anti-China groups involved are support by Al Qaeda who are funded by Saudi Arabia and the US.

Why would PAK and NK want to bite the hand that feeds them?

*I'm obviously referencing the governments/leaders here, of course, not e.g. the Pakistan Taliban.

Oh sorry. The US. Or I suppose the west in general.
OK fine. Cross them off the list.
It doesn't matter.
There are nukes.
There are terrorist groups.
And there are states with nukes who sponsor terrorism.
Seems pretty clear to me.

And I'm sorry I don't think you can count on rationality in the context of terrorist groups.
There is a lot of playing of both sides.
Pakistan has been the recipient of US military aid for decades and yet they support the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/pakis...-quagmire/
No matter what kind of card shuffling you engage in if you put all the ingredients into the same bin eventually it's gonna happen.
The support is already there. It's just a matter of escalating what type of material support you are talking about.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/anderscorr/...f5c2843c8b
Quote:Pakistan is a supporter of the Taliban, Haqqani, Islamic State and Al Qaeda. To convince Pakistan to cease supporting terrorism, influential nations must label Pakistan a state sponsor of terrorism, and impose economic sanctions.

Forget North Korea: Why the World Should Fear Pakistan's Nukes
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buz...ukes-21166

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01-09-2017, 10:35 AM
RE: Standoff
That's been a ongoing notion about Pakistan since the 90s

Though why I found the dumbest part of Trump's Afghanistan comments being the threats he made to India if they don't aid his afghan fight along his what he proclaimed was not nation building buy described nation building.

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01-09-2017, 11:00 AM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2017 11:11 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: Standoff
(01-09-2017 10:35 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That's been a ongoing notion about Pakistan since the 90s

Though why I found the dumbest part of Trump's Afghanistan comments being the threats he made to India if they don't aid his afghan fight along his what he proclaimed was not nation building buy described nation building.

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And I think this is the point.
I don't see any upside in roiling the waters. And Trump just doesn't seem capable of not. The Chicken Hawks aren't happy unless they throw their weight around.
But I just can't see any provocation short of direct attack would result in N Korea attacking the US directly or Guam or Japan. It would be suicide.
Another 911 type event somehow coordinated with any of a number of likely candidates seems more likely to me.
As far as what Putin has to say. Well don't forget it was Russia that launched North Korea's nuclear program.
It looks like it's bearing fruit now.
He'd love negotiations where the US is represented by Rex Tillerson who he awarded the grand knob polisher award or whatever it was that he gave him.
And we can all pretend that there won't be big oil contracts available to trade for concessions.
Maybe that's all the whole point. Another big get rich quick scheme.

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01-09-2017, 11:39 AM
RE: Standoff
Japan was invading parts of china too.

I don't think you can really compare NK to Japan in that way.

While lobbing a nuke would be devestating to where ever it landed, I'm fairly confident most of the world wouldn't stand for that shit. It would place china in a delicate position where they (since they like NK -- not because of leadership, but because of the buffer-zone NK creates) to yank on the leash or face losing a lot of business in the world economy.


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