Standoff
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07-09-2017, 06:27 AM
RE: Standoff
I still never saw what the envisioned real end goal Japan thought they could see. I get it for most all countries of the world wars but really don't get how Japan saw a war with US ending positively.

Did they think they'd just eventually give up over a war across the ocean.

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07-09-2017, 06:57 AM
RE: Standoff
(07-09-2017 06:27 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I still never saw what the envisioned real end goal Japan thought they could see. I get it for most all countries of the world wars but really don't get how Japan saw a war with US ending positively.

Did they think they'd just eventually give up over a war across the ocean.

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They thought they could take out the US Pacific fleet--they were right on that count. They also figured that with their other potential allies tied up Europe, a weakened US would be held at bay while Japan continued to do their thing in Asia. They were not wrong on that count either--recall we did not focus our offensive on Japan first, but focused on Europe first to free up potential allied resources and remove a major theater of war before turning back to Japan.

What they did not count on is the capacity of the US to quickly and massively rebuild, and then invent new weapons to strike back.

The strategic comparison between Japan and North Korea fails on these points. North Korea cold not conduct a first strike and count on other conflicts to tie up the US. And their only major ally, China, made clear that any attack initiated by North Korea would result in China remaining neutral in any ensuing war.
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07-09-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: Standoff
(07-09-2017 06:57 AM)BryanS Wrote:  North Korea cold not conduct a first strike and count on other conflicts to tie up the US. And their only major ally, China, made clear that any attack initiated by North Korea would result in China remaining neutral in any ensuing war.

Bryan,

China have made it clear that they will not allow forced regime change (by the US) in NK.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-11...ime-change

D.
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07-09-2017, 07:11 PM
RE: Standoff
(07-09-2017 01:43 PM)Dworkin Wrote:  
(07-09-2017 06:57 AM)BryanS Wrote:  North Korea cold not conduct a first strike and count on other conflicts to tie up the US. And their only major ally, China, made clear that any attack initiated by North Korea would result in China remaining neutral in any ensuing war.

Bryan,

China have made it clear that they will not allow forced regime change (by the US) in NK.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-11...ime-change

D.

They said both things--they will not allow Kim to be overthrown, but if NK initiates an attack, they will remain neutral.
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07-09-2017, 10:47 PM
RE: Standoff
(07-09-2017 06:27 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I still never saw what the envisioned real end goal Japan thought they could see. I get it for most all countries of the world wars but really don't get how Japan saw a war with US ending positively.

Did they think they'd just eventually give up over a war across the ocean.

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It was simply a classic case of generals fighting the previous war. Or admirals in this case. During the 18thC and WW1, pretty much since the 16th century really, the Battleship was the king of the seas. The battleships were famous, they were paraded around. The Hood is a perfect example or the Bismarck.

When the Japanese attacked Pearl Habor they sunk a huge chunk of the US Battleship fleet. HOWEVER, all the aircraft carriers were out and about and so weren't sunk. The aircraft was the king of the sea during WW2.

The Bismarck, for example, was hit by a torpedo dropped by a swordfish. The torpedo hit its rudder meaning it couldn't steer. It was a sitting duck for the British fleet. The British fleet were able to rock up and literally pound the shit out of it for like 4 hours straight.

The Yamato. The largest battleship ever built. Japan's pride and joy. Extremely expensive. Extremely resource expensive. Capable of out-ranging and out-gunning anything. Sunk by 30?? tiny US aircraft.

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08-09-2017, 01:24 AM
RE: Standoff
(07-09-2017 10:47 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  The British fleet were able to rock up and literally pound the shit out of it for like 4 hours straight.
More like 90min (09:00-10:30) Smartass

(07-09-2017 10:47 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  The Yamato. The largest battleship ever built. Japan's pride and joy. Extremely expensive. Extremely resource expensive. Capable of out-ranging and out-gunning anything. Sunk by 30?? tiny US aircraft.
300, launched from several CVs, 12 waves iirc. Smartass

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08-09-2017, 01:33 AM
RE: Standoff
(07-09-2017 06:27 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I still never saw what the envisioned real end goal Japan thought they could see. I get it for most all countries of the world wars but really don't get how Japan saw a war with US ending positively.

Did they think they'd just eventually give up over a war across the ocean.

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Japan was utterly confident. They hadnt been invaded since the failed mongol invasion attempt and faced only one major defeat, against...............Korea in the late 1500s under Hideyoshi Toyotomi.

Japan considered his tropps to be unbeatable, the US society morally bancrupt and policitcal system as weak and brittle and severly underestimated its economic power.

The Japanese administration never thought the US would have the will and power to sustain a long and brutal war, Japan in return was willing to trigger. They really thought that the US would beg for peace after a series of brutal onslaughts and defeats.

People who visited the US like Yamamoto (and othe rofficers) knew much, much better than that.

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08-09-2017, 02:16 AM
RE: Standoff
(08-09-2017 01:24 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(07-09-2017 10:47 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  The British fleet were able to rock up and literally pound the shit out of it for like 4 hours straight.
More like 90min (09:00-10:30) Smartass

(07-09-2017 10:47 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  The Yamato. The largest battleship ever built. Japan's pride and joy. Extremely expensive. Extremely resource expensive. Capable of out-ranging and out-gunning anything. Sunk by 30?? tiny US aircraft.
300, launched from several CVs, 12 waves iirc. Smartass

eh, tiny details.

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09-09-2017, 06:20 AM
RE: Standoff
(07-09-2017 07:11 PM)BryanS Wrote:  They said both things--they will not allow Kim to be overthrown, but if NK initiates an attack, they will remain neutral.

Bryan,

Yes.

This is why the Yanks do what they can to provoke the NK leadership into mistaken action. The future security of NK relies on keeping cool until they have the deterrent definitely available.

D.
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