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29-10-2014, 06:41 AM
RE: Star Trek.
TOS series has always been my favorite, so I'm wanting to start a geek fight here. Their transporter technology renders virtually all space travel obsolete, all they need to do is send a robotic transporter/gate to the destination one time and then transporting to the destination renders all other modes of transport to said destination vastly more expensive, risky and unwieldy.

Also, it seems that transporter technology would make it possible to store an idealized/optimal form of your physical self in the pattern buffers. So if you age or get injured they just use the stored template of your optimal self to hit the reset button. Thus rendering sickness/medical injury a thing of the past as well as giving people immortality.

Also, people could've been stored in energy form in idealized virtual worlds in compact spaces. They touched on this with the holodeck. They could have a paradise for everyone on the planet that could've been stored in a location the size of a building.

They never worked through the ramifications of the technologies they portrayed on the show, the transporter would have been a far more important invention than the warp drive, a total game-changer for the entire Federation.

I done went full geek.....Big Grin

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29-10-2014, 07:05 AM
RE: Star Trek.
(29-10-2014 06:40 AM)Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue Wrote:  
(29-10-2014 05:45 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  I have a question about Star Trek that I thought maybe I might get an answer about here: why are the consoles typically found on ships made of explodium?
Watsonian: Well in real life the console on some (WW2 era) aircraft would catch alight or explode because they routed the liquid it was measuring through the cockpit, the fuel gauge would just be a pressure valve attached to the tank, so when the plane gets hit *boom* everything's on fire.

They use a similar explanation on Trek. A plasma conduit overloads when the ship is damaged and that causes the explosion. Except:
Plasma explosions don't look like that and that would realistically kill the entire bridge.
Why on earth would anybody design a ship that way when they can measure whatever the conduit is for remotely?

(My pet theory is that there's enough social pressure for perfection going on in the Federation that some members of the bridge crew booby trap their workstation as suicide attempts. That's why it never happens when one of the main crew is on the blast radius and why the console is operable afterwards. They're mostly stable. The Captains keep it quiet because the higher ups don't want to address the problem. (Hence why Troi sucks at her job so much.) that way they can rotate and motivate as many workers as possible.

You don't have to work in the Federation. People choose to work because they enjoy it. So rapidly advancing up the hierarchy is a good way to get as many people to work as possible. Hence stimulating what would otherwise be a subsistence economy. This also explains why the crew on the Flagship is as insanely technically proficient as the crew of some backwater space station and a relatively minor research vessel. (Able to pull together extremely complicated, theoretical science experiments in their spare time, as a hobby.) Everybody gets rotated to their positions more or less at random and the vast majority of scientists and doctors and captains are average.

And that's why there's such a high death rate on the other, non-protagonist focused, ships. (At least one completely destroyed ship a season. That's nuts.) The Higher Ups are trying to clear the most desirable positions faster to help incentivize all the genius level janitors and low level technicians.)

Doyilist: Because the studio executives didn't believe the production crew when they said "We can make this dramatic without pyrotechnics" and told them to do it during filming on TOS and it stuck with the other series.

I question the Watsonian explanation; why instigate such dangerous and clearly inefficient systems? Seems like every time a shield gets so much as a laser pen pointed at it an Ensign has a bad day and at the very least a console needs to be replaced.

It seems to me that every other time a shield takes a hit, the ship itself rocks and sparks fly, and every other other time consoles explode. The hell are the shields doing? Clearly they aren't stopping the physical force of whatever is hitting them... Unless the energy shields are some how physically tethered to the superstructure and are not actually projected as I would assume...

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29-10-2014, 07:15 AM
RE: Star Trek.
(29-10-2014 07:05 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(29-10-2014 06:40 AM)Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue Wrote:  Watsonian: Well in real life the console on some (WW2 era) aircraft would catch alight or explode because they routed the liquid it was measuring through the cockpit, the fuel gauge would just be a pressure valve attached to the tank, so when the plane gets hit *boom* everything's on fire.

They use a similar explanation on Trek. A plasma conduit overloads when the ship is damaged and that causes the explosion. Except:
Plasma explosions don't look like that and that would realistically kill the entire bridge.
Why on earth would anybody design a ship that way when they can measure whatever the conduit is for remotely?

(My pet theory is that there's enough social pressure for perfection going on in the Federation that some members of the bridge crew booby trap their workstation as suicide attempts. That's why it never happens when one of the main crew is on the blast radius and why the console is operable afterwards. They're mostly stable. The Captains keep it quiet because the higher ups don't want to address the problem. (Hence why Troi sucks at her job so much.) that way they can rotate and motivate as many workers as possible.

You don't have to work in the Federation. People choose to work because they enjoy it. So rapidly advancing up the hierarchy is a good way to get as many people to work as possible. Hence stimulating what would otherwise be a subsistence economy. This also explains why the crew on the Flagship is as insanely technically proficient as the crew of some backwater space station and a relatively minor research vessel. (Able to pull together extremely complicated, theoretical science experiments in their spare time, as a hobby.) Everybody gets rotated to their positions more or less at random and the vast majority of scientists and doctors and captains are average.

And that's why there's such a high death rate on the other, non-protagonist focused, ships. (At least one completely destroyed ship a season. That's nuts.) The Higher Ups are trying to clear the most desirable positions faster to help incentivize all the genius level janitors and low level technicians.)

Doyilist: Because the studio executives didn't believe the production crew when they said "We can make this dramatic without pyrotechnics" and told them to do it during filming on TOS and it stuck with the other series.

I question the Watsonian explanation; why instigate such dangerous and clearly inefficient systems? Seems like every time a shield gets so much as a laser pen pointed at it an Ensign has a bad day and at the very least a console needs to be replaced.

It seems to me that every other time a shield takes a hit, the ship itself rocks and sparks fly, and every other other time consoles explode. The hell are the shields doing? Clearly they aren't stopping the physical force of whatever is hitting them... Unless the energy shields are some how physically tethered to the superstructure and are not actually projected as I would assume...
The only other thing I understand about Star Trek shields is that they are teathered to the location of the projector. Which makes them teathered to the ships superstructure. That's why they can't use the shields at warp. (Sometimes and for some reason I don't understand.)

Once placed they can be "re-modulated" (what ever that means) in order to move them and subvert them. That's why you can shoot and beam through the shields when you know the shield frequency. (Somehow and sometimes.)

Honestly nothing about the shields has ever been portrayed consistently.

On the exploding consoles point:
Quote:A plasma conduit overloads when the ship is damaged and that causes the explosion. Except:
Plasma explosions don't look like that and that would realistically kill the entire bridge.
Why on earth would anybody design a ship that way when they can measure whatever the conduit is for remotely?
Your entirely right. The design is retarded. That's why I find the "Murderous, suicidal Federation" thing a more plausible explanation.
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29-10-2014, 07:28 AM
RE: Star Trek.
(29-10-2014 06:41 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  TOS series has always been my favorite, so I'm wanting to start a geek fight here. Their transporter technology renders virtually all space travel obsolete, all they need to do is send a robotic transporter/gate to the destination one time and then transporting to the destination renders all other modes of transport to said destination vastly more expensive, risky and unwieldy.

Also, it seems that transporter technology would make it possible to store an idealized/optimal form of your physical self in the pattern buffers. So if you age or get injured they just use the stored template of your optimal self to hit the reset button. Thus rendering sickness/medical injury a thing of the past as well as giving people immortality.

Also, people could've been stored in energy form in idealized virtual worlds in compact spaces. They touched on this with the holodeck. They could have a paradise for everyone on the planet that could've been stored in a location the size of a building.

They never worked through the ramifications of the technologies they portrayed on the show, the transporter would have been a far more important invention than the warp drive, a total game-changer for the entire Federation.

I done went full geek.....Big Grin
This is headcannon obviously but in TOS I always figured the Transporters were an application of the warp drive and the replicators. Use warp to effect an area a greater distance away from you than the replicators could usually interact with and build something there. That'd be why they don't use transporters for things like surgery or interplanetary travel. They just can't project a warp field that far or on that small a scale. (It's completely impossible to generate a warp field greater than warp 10. Space can be stretched only so far and no further. I don't care what Threshold or the reboot series says.)

Then Voyager and Next Gen come along and start doing the completely impossible bullshit with the Transporters and I get all annoyed.

As for the story possibilities: Your entirely right. Shitty writing and a poorly realized world.
I think the actual applications of Transporters in particular only come up twice-ish. When Scotty is brought into Next Gen and when the Voyager crew holds the refugees in the buffer.
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29-10-2014, 08:17 AM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2014 08:23 AM by Filox.)
RE: Star Trek.
I've seen them all. All the series, all the movies. The only thing left was the Star Trek Online and I am a half Romulan Starfleet Ambasador (level 52) now. So, yeah, ST is not only a nostalgic thing for me, I still watch it and I still play it.

It is still as good as it ever was.

Favorite series?

TNG
Enterprise
TOS
Voyager
DS9

I do not want to get involved in your geek stories about ST technology, you people are too geeky. Go play some STO. Look for Tal Shiar fleet. Contact Admiral Filox.

Big Grin

P.S.
I just got my first smartphone and tablet (ha, just now, silly me) and the first thing (and only) I installed on both of them is: https://play.google.com/store/apps/detai...twallpaper

My PC looks like this: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid359385

I don't want to hear any nagging about me not being a true trekkie...

Smile

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29-10-2014, 08:41 AM
RE: Star Trek.
(28-10-2014 05:13 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Where would a person start if they've never seen an episode? Blush

I hear you Smerc....I've never gotten into it. Bring on the Trekkie abuse. Weeping

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29-10-2014, 09:27 AM
RE: Star Trek.
(28-10-2014 06:42 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 05:42 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  It's winter- pop the popcorn and half a glass of shiraz. You're set! Ha ha.

Just try the first season and see how the boot fits. Shy

Give it til season 3. First few seasons on TNG were hit and miss.

All the TNG is good, but when they encounter the Borg... Best part of all the ST. After you see that, you will be assimilated. Welcome to the trekkie collective.

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29-10-2014, 09:32 AM
RE: Star Trek.
(28-10-2014 05:31 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 05:13 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Where would a person start if they've never seen an episode? Blush

ST NG Season 1 Episode 1. After that series, do the original then the others. Watch movies in between. Thumbsup

I sort of agree with this. In some ways, I'd say watch them in the order they were produced. So that would mean starting with TOS, but in today's world where we are used to cool special effects, TOS might turn some people off because it was all created on a shoestring budget. So, it might make sense to start with TNG. However, I wouldn't watch the first 6 movies until after watching the TOS series. And I wouldn't watch movies 7-10 until after watching the TNG series. The last 2 movies directed by Abrams are probably best saved for after the TOS series too.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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29-10-2014, 09:42 AM
RE: Star Trek.
(29-10-2014 06:41 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Also, it seems that transporter technology would make it possible to store an idealized/optimal form of your physical self in the pattern buffers. So if you age or get injured they just use the stored template of your optimal self to hit the reset button. Thus rendering sickness/medical injury a thing of the past as well as giving people immortality.

That's an interesting thought, but I don't think it works that way. The transporter disassembles your atoms holding them in an energy pattern that gets sent to the destination and then reassembles them. Once reassembled, there is no pattern remaining because there are no atoms left in the buffer to maintain the pattern. If there is actually a computer memory of the pattern, it wouldn't contain the actual atoms so there would be no way to return to a younger age or restore to a pre-injured state.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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29-10-2014, 04:01 PM
RE: Star Trek.
(29-10-2014 08:17 AM)Filox Wrote:  I've seen them all. All the series, all the movies. The only thing left was the Star Trek Online and I am a half Romulan Starfleet Ambasador (level 52) now. So, yeah, ST is not only a nostalgic thing for me, I still watch it and I still play it.

It is still as good as it ever was.

Favorite series?

TNG
Enterprise
TOS
Voyager
DS9

I do not want to get involved in your geek stories about ST technology, you people are too geeky. Go play some STO. Look for Tal Shiar fleet. Contact Admiral Filox.

Big Grin

P.S.
I just got my first smartphone and tablet (ha, just now, silly me) and the first thing (and only) I installed on both of them is: https://play.google.com/store/apps/detai...twallpaper

My PC looks like this: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid359385

I don't want to hear any nagging about me not being a true trekkie...

Smile

G'day Filox, you're alive are you?

Here I'd about given up hope.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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