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30-10-2014, 02:26 PM
RE: Star Trek.
(30-10-2014 02:16 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(30-10-2014 02:01 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Star Trek 2-6 are all worth watching, though admittedly 3 & 5 are nowhere near as good as 2 & 4. 6 wraps up the original Star Trek and should be seen but as far as the movies go it is another meh.

6 is the second-best of the lot.
(and recalling what I said about production order it's very much an interesting and dare I say important artifact of its time and place)

Skip 5. It's awful. Doesn't fail as badly, perhaps, but it fails more thoroughly; Generations or Insurrection with a competent re-written script could go from 1 to 3 stars, easy, but 5 is always and forever at best a 2.

Yeah I completely disagree with you on this. 6 is at best a 2.5/5 Wrath of Khan and the voyage home are both 4.5/5 Where as V for me is a solid 3/5. Insurrection was horrible on every level. Generations was ok another 2.5/5 movie sadly that was as good as any of the Next Gen movies ever got.

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30-10-2014, 04:03 PM
RE: Star Trek.
Of the Star Trek 1-6 movies, I agree that The Wrath of Khan (2) and The Voyage Home (4) were the best. I'd put The Undiscovered Country (6) next and it was a decent movie. I agree The Final Frontier (5) was the worst. Star Trek The Motion Picture (1) was just ok, but was too much of a big-screen USS Enterprise show off display with a fairly boring script. I didn't care much for The Search for Spock (3) either, but it was the necessary tie-in between 2 and 4.

With the TNG movies, First Contact was the best. For me, Generations was the worst. I liked both Insurrection and Nemesis.

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30-10-2014, 04:30 PM
RE: Star Trek.
(30-10-2014 04:03 PM)Impulse Wrote:  I liked ... Nemesis.

GET OUT OF HERE, heretic scum

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30-10-2014, 04:35 PM
RE: Star Trek.
(30-10-2014 04:30 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(30-10-2014 04:03 PM)Impulse Wrote:  I liked ... Nemesis.

GET OUT OF HERE, heretic scum

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30-10-2014, 04:42 PM
RE: Star Trek.
(30-10-2014 04:30 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(30-10-2014 04:03 PM)Impulse Wrote:  I liked ... Nemesis.

GET OUT OF HERE, heretic scum

congrats with your 6'th 666 like

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30-10-2014, 07:04 PM
RE: Star Trek.
I think it's important to say that it's possible for a movie to be good without being entertaining. Some films intentionally alienate their audience, some are poorly executed with a good script (That it explores interesting ideas while being poorly acted or unconvincing effects work. Stuff like that.) and some contain elements that I can't say I like but are competently done. ("This is the most beautiful awful thing I've ever seen.")

So on the Star Trek films:
-Motion Picture: Kinda shitty on both fronts. It creates an interesting scenario and then never really comes to a dramatic conclusion.
-Wrath: Probably the best film. No need to elaborate I'm sure you know this shit.
-Search for Spock: It's fine. Emotionally solid, interesting concept, tells us more about inter-Vulcan relationships. If it had an interesting conflict and didn't futz with some of the themes of the previous movie I'd go so far as to call it fairly good good.
-Voyage Home: Also fine. I dig it but I can't justify the degree to which I dig it in the text. I just find it funny and I like it.
-Frontier: Almost entirely without merit. Given a top down re-write (Off the top of my head: The Enterprise crew fall back into full emotional abnegation as Kirks authority is subverted by a cult figure. Cut Space Satan entirely. Leave Syboc as the brother and make it a McCoy/ Spock team up in the third act and it becomes Kirk's final failure after he reaffirms himself in Wrath and redeems himself in Country.) and you've got something interesting but as it is the only reason to watch it is if you're going to get the Rifftrack as well.
-Undiscovered Country: Probably my favorite of the TOS films. Interesting conflict, well drawn villians, permanent change to the status quo (Which is the best way to end a series.) Kirk's final arc as he understands his current problems rather than just fixes those he had as a younger man and generally good all round. Not as good as Wrath I just like it more.

Generations: Fuck.

First Contact: The best of the Next Gen films and the one I like the most.. That doesn't say much. The plot is good; literally making the Borg a threat to the fundamentals of the federation, a character exploration between what we are and what we can be, the best cinematography in any of the pre-reboot films and I buy that Picard would have regressed in his PTSD after loosing the farm and family in Generations and having to fight the Borg again. The problem is that I don't think they explored Picards character very well and the entire Queen|Data|Retarded-action-climax is both poorly conceived and poorly executed.
-Insurrection: Fuck but a fuck that deserves elaboration. It subverts and messes with every thematic point established in the preceding works except Data's further understanding of his emotional development (Or lack of development as the case may be.) that's just terribly done instead of being retarded.
-Nemesis: Take what Insurrection does and combine it with being offensively bad on every point.

-Reboot: Shitty movie. I don't care how pretty the cinematography is or how good Abrams is as a director. Write a script that doesn't suck.
-Into Darkness: Fuck. I've seen worse movies. There are worse Star Trek movies even (Generations, Nemesis and Fronteir.) but nothing has pissed me off more than this movie. At this point I would support Orci and Kurtzman being bared from writing ever again.

(29-10-2014 08:17 AM)Filox Wrote:  I don't want to hear any nagging about me not being a true trekkie...
There's no such thing as a true Trekkie. The very idea hurts comuni-
(29-10-2014 08:17 AM)Filox Wrote:  Favorite series?

TNG
Enterprise
TOS
Voyager
DS9
That's the sort of thing that makes it difficult to be open and fair.
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31-10-2014, 08:26 AM
RE: Star Trek.
(30-10-2014 04:30 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(30-10-2014 04:03 PM)Impulse Wrote:  I liked ... Nemesis.

GET OUT OF HERE, heretic scum

Yeah, I'm not surprised you didn't like Nemesis. A lot of Star Trek fans didn't. I never understood what the big hoopla was about. Drinking Beverage

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31-10-2014, 08:33 AM
RE: Star Trek.
(31-10-2014 08:26 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(30-10-2014 04:30 PM)cjlr Wrote:  GET OUT OF HERE, heretic scum

Yeah, I'm not surprised you didn't like Nemesis. A lot of Star Trek fans didn't. I never understood what the big hoopla was about. Drinking Beverage

In its best moments it aspires to glimpses of mediocrity. Star Trek completely aside, it's crap.

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31-10-2014, 08:49 AM
RE: Star Trek.
Ok. Let me straighten up the movies for you.
TMP was slow but I enjoyed it. I know, almost everybody thought it sucked but it stayed true to TOS.
Wrath of Khan. What is there to be said? An awesome movie. Probably the best of all.
The Search For Spock. Meh. It was ok.
The Voyage Home. Entertaining but dumb as shit.
The Final Frontier. The themes were there. It was, like TMP, true to what TOS was but it was a crappy movie.
The Undiscovered Country. Excellent movie. It seemed to miss the mark a bit on what the Federation is supposed to be but a great movie.
Generations. Sucked! Probably worse than Final Frontier.
First Contact. Great fucking movie! Fun from beginning to end. Watching Troy though was as usual, painful.
Insurrection. It was good but I can't get past the slowing time thing. That was dumb. Still entertaining though.
Nemesis. I guess Picard needed his own Kahn? I dunno. Crappy movie but I liked the ending.
ST09. It was a good movie but it lacked something that I can't quite put my finger on.
Into Darkness. It was ok but did we really need a remake of Kahn? No, no we didn't.
I could go into details about these movies but that would take far too much typing and I'm not patient. I will if I'm asked though.
Then there's the series'.
TOS. The best of all. But I might be biased. It was my Star Trek. I've watched it for as long as I can remember.
TNG. Sometimes as campy as TOS but seems to take itself to seriously sometimes. Still the second best.
Enterprise. I know. An unpopular opinion. Most people liked the whole Xindi thing but I thought they missed a great opportunity to bring us the Romulan war spoken of in TOS. The era that Enterprise was in was the right era for that. I likes the earlier seasons. Really shitty ending.
DS9. Very touch and go in my opinion. It had a different feel than the others. I love Cisco but the rest of the cast mostly sucked. It got better with the Dominion war but most of the time when watching I'm just bored.
Voyager. That show mostly sucked. I hate Janeway. I don't know if it was Mulgrew(sp?) or her direction but fuck she's bad. A lot of bad writing in there too.
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31-10-2014, 09:46 AM
RE: Star Trek.
(31-10-2014 08:33 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 08:26 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Yeah, I'm not surprised you didn't like Nemesis. A lot of Star Trek fans didn't. I never understood what the big hoopla was about. Drinking Beverage

In its best moments it aspires to glimpses of mediocrity. Star Trek completely aside, it's crap.

I saw it once and it was years ago now so I don't remember it all that clearly. But I know I enjoyed it at the time and I don't remember it being that bad. It's hard for me to speak about it "Star Trek completely aside" at this point. Maybe I'll watch it again soon.

One thing I meant to say earlier in my post about all the movies is that the Abrams movies aren't really Star Trek to me. Star Trek has action, but it isn't only about the action which is what the Abrams movies focus on most. Real Star Trek has a good script, depth of the characters, and social/moral implications. From a Star Trek point of view, I wasn't thrilled about the alternate timeline either. However, I could still enjoy the movies just as movies if I didn't think too hard about their supposing to be Star Trek.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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