Starlight
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22-11-2011, 07:58 PM
Starlight
I've been wondering this for a while and haven't been able to come up with an apologetic answer on my own, so I thought I'd throw it out here. What's the creationist explanation for being able to see stars that are millions of light years away? I've heard of talk before on an unrelated issue that the speed of light was slower before (which is how people "lived longer" back in biblical times), but that would only cause problems for the stars instead of answer it. We'd be able to see even fewer stars if that was the case. If the Earth and the universe were 10,000 years old, how can we see any stars further away from us than 10,000 light years?

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22-11-2011, 09:01 PM
RE: Starlight
(22-11-2011 07:58 PM)ebilekittae Wrote:  I've been wondering this for a while and haven't been able to come up with an apologetic answer on my own, so I thought I'd throw it out here. What's the creationist explanation for being able to see stars that are millions of light years away? I've heard of talk before on an unrelated issue that the speed of light was slower before (which is how people "lived longer" back in biblical times), but that would only cause problems for the stars instead of answer it. We'd be able to see even fewer stars if that was the case. If the Earth and the universe were 10,000 years old, how can we see any stars further away from us than 10,000 light years?

Back in my sad, pathetic days of being a creationist, I think there were two theories that I had heard about starlight and the young age of the earth.

Theory 1 is the one you mentioned. The speed of light is not a constant in that it had a different speed 10,000 years ago than it does now.

Theory 2 is as unlikely: God made the stars with their beams of light already in transit. A star may be many millions of light years away, but when that star was created, God made it so it's light was already reaching us. Isn't God super powerful?

Bonus Theory: I don't know how prevalent this one was, but I did hear it a time or two: God made the stars to appear billions of light years away to test our faith in Him. Related, but more popular is the idea that the fossil record was planted by Satan to test our faith.

Obviously these are not tenable theories so I won't even try to give you details on their apologetic defense.

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22-11-2011, 09:08 PM
RE: Starlight
I was poking around a little myself and came across an apologetics website that actually had a bit of integrity (if you'll believe that Tongue). It listed a lot of prevailing theories about that and then listed how and why they've been debunked (though leaving it a bit open). They eventually settled with the "God said it, I believe it, that settles it!" routine. It was interesting to see an apologetics site actually care about debunked rebuttals, though!

I also stumbled across this, which was awesome: http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5639

"It does feel like something to be wrong; it feels like being right." -Kathryn Schulz
I am 100% certain that I am wrong about something I am certain about right now. Because even if everything I stand for turns out to be completely true, I was still wrong about being wrong.
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22-11-2011, 09:39 PM
RE: Starlight
(22-11-2011 09:08 PM)ebilekittae Wrote:  I also stumbled across this, which was awesome: http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5639

I heard Greg Koukl speak a few times when I lived in Southern California. When I was a Christian, I appreciated his viewpoints. He at least is able to back up his arguments with a bit more common sense than the young earthers. For those who know who William Lane Craig is, Koukl runs in his Apologetic circles.

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22-11-2011, 10:57 PM
RE: Starlight
It is because of this and many other facts of the universe that many Christians have taken up the belief that the bible is not literally true.

But obviously, some young-earthers do exist (my parents are among them). What do they say? "It's too difficult for us to understand all the mysteries of God." Seriously. They also threw out that lame idea that maybe light wasn't always the same speed.

The best answers to any Genesis question is left to Answers in Genesis, a website that is actually dedicated to weeding out weak or debunked answers to scientific questions relating to Genesis. They attack the assumptions we make to make a case of "reasonable doubt" about whether the universe could be young. For instance, they believe our perception of time may have sped up since the beginning of time, or suggest that the expansion of the universe was very rapid at first (this is actually something scientists have to account for) and then slowed to the speed it's at now.

In any case, there's no reason to doubt that what we observe is true. There's no evidence that physics used to work by a different model than it does now... it's just an old religion trying to fit new data into its broken framework. The Muslims try to do this too with the Q'uran, and your average creationist (a Christian) will also see how foolhardy this defense is. If you present it to them, they'll be forced to argue your case for you. If it can be said about the Q'uran and its desperate pleas to stay relevant, it can be said about the Bible.

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23-11-2011, 01:08 AM
RE: Starlight
(22-11-2011 09:08 PM)ebilekittae Wrote:  They eventually settled with the "God said it, I believe it, that settles it!" routine...

That kind of position would come across as more sincere if only they didn't retreat to it only after an attempt at logical argument failed. If in their own minds faith really does trump any and all contrary reasoning then why venture into logical argument in the first place?
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23-11-2011, 09:21 AM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2011 11:50 AM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Starlight
(22-11-2011 07:58 PM)ebilekittae Wrote:  I've been wondering this for a while and haven't been able to come up with an apologetic answer on my own, so I thought I'd throw it out here. What's the creationist explanation for being able to see stars that are millions of light years away? I've heard of talk before on an unrelated issue that the speed of light was slower before (which is how people "lived longer" back in biblical times), but that would only cause problems for the stars instead of answer it. We'd be able to see even fewer stars if that was the case. If the Earth and the universe were 10,000 years old, how can we see any stars further away from us than 10,000 light years?

Assuming time progressed slower in the past is not an explanation for ANYTHING.

For anyone to know that time was progressing slower, you would have to be an outside observer to the universe. The speed of light would appear to still travel at the exact same speed as today. Only the outside observer would be able to see that the speed of light is increasing as time progresses. No one on earth would know!

Similarly people would not live longer, they would live the exact same amount of time. If the outside observer watched them, he wouldn't see the people from 2000 bc live longer, they would live slower. Every action they made would seem to be extraordinarily slow compared to the people in the current time.

There was a thread about this here,
http://thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thre...owing-down
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23-11-2011, 12:17 PM
RE: Starlight
I was given the reply that the stars are lights that are there to show us Gods creation, whatever that means.
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23-11-2011, 12:34 PM
RE: Starlight
(23-11-2011 12:17 PM)Lwio Wrote:  I was given the reply that the stars are lights that are there to show us Gods creation, whatever that means.

It means that they don't know but they like to think that they know.

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23-11-2011, 01:00 PM
RE: Starlight
I've heard the "mature creation" idea before- where everything is created as it currently is: light already in place, stars already visible, earth already cooled and eroded, and life already evolved.

It's an extremely deluded way of accepting the facts but denying the conclusions that would result logically from the facts. But, I mean since God is all-powerful, then he can do this, right?

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