State by State Comparison
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25-11-2015, 01:55 PM
RE: State by State Comparison
(25-11-2015 01:51 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(25-11-2015 01:31 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Want to bet that your attempt to tie this to race (which you still claim isn't racist) has far more to do with poverty and income level?

Facepalm

You believe crime is caused by poverty and income levels, I do not. I believe it's an excuse. Rape is not tied to economics, perhaps you should look at crime statistics.

You believe crime is racial, and then claim to not be racist.

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25-11-2015, 01:55 PM
RE: State by State Comparison
(25-11-2015 01:51 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(25-11-2015 12:48 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You "haven't looked at the data for years"? Do you mean anecdotes? Because I'm showing you the data and you keep special pleading it away. According to you, urbanization "skews the data" and demographics are the cause of elevated crime rates in cities. (Except, that isn't supported by anything other than your anecdotes).

Don't you just hate it when people do that?

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25-11-2015, 01:57 PM
RE: State by State Comparison
(25-11-2015 01:55 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(25-11-2015 01:51 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Facepalm

You believe crime is caused by poverty and income levels, I do not. I believe it's an excuse. Rape is not tied to economics, perhaps you should look at crime statistics.

You believe crime is racial, and then claim to not be racist.

"It's not racist because it's true", is, I believe, the racist party line on that one.

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25-11-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: State by State Comparison
"Some of my best friends are racist."

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25-11-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: State by State Comparison
(25-11-2015 01:51 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(25-11-2015 01:31 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Want to bet that your attempt to tie this to race (which you still claim isn't racist) has far more to do with poverty and income level?

Facepalm

You believe crime is caused by poverty and income levels, I do not. I believe it's an excuse. Rape is not tied to economics, perhaps you should look at crime statistics.

People believe what they want to believe, much of the time, but rarely does it ever strike me as productive to refuse to believe what any competent statistical analysis shows beyond any ambiguity.

So, let's just pretend for a moment there isn't an extremely robust correlation between crime and inequality and exclusion. What causal factors do you propose?

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25-11-2015, 02:05 PM
RE: State by State Comparison
Come on, you never bet on whether or not poverty level would have a control. I just finished a new PCA of the biggest cities in the US and factored in the poverty level for each and major divisions of crime.

Don't you want to make a guess before I show you the data you will ignore?

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25-11-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: State by State Comparison
What everyone here seems to be overlooking is the whole correlation =/= causation. Correlations are great for the starting point of a hypothesis, but terrible at providing any meaningful evidence. I don't think the point of the OP was to imply causation, but rather to propose a hypothesis regarding an obvious correlation. LDH is providing meaningful input by proposing counter-hypothesis that has required the OP to strengthen his original hypothesis and tease out non-correlating factors from his data. You guys should be thanking LDH, not hating on him.

I have seen no conclusive evidence that proves religion, political affiliation, or demographics to be the cause of criminal activity, stupidity, poverty, etc. What I do see is that these things are intertwined and demonstrate strong correlations. The interconnectedness of local, regional, national, and world-wide historical event combined with cultural conventions dating back centuries and human psychology create societal systems that are np-hard and are unlikely to be explained by gross generalizations.

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25-11-2015, 02:12 PM
RE: State by State Comparison
(25-11-2015 02:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(25-11-2015 01:51 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Facepalm

You believe crime is caused by poverty and income levels, I do not. I believe it's an excuse. Rape is not tied to economics, perhaps you should look at crime statistics.

People believe what they want to believe, much of the time, but rarely does it ever strike me as productive to refuse to believe what any competent statistical analysis shows beyond any ambiguity.

So, let's just pretend for a moment there isn't an extremely robust correlation between crime and inequality and exclusion. What causal factors do you propose?

I think it's a culture thing. Not necessarily a race thing. That's what people don't get. It's "cool" to be a criminal amongst certain groups. It's a culture that they CHOOSE to live by. Blacks that choose to adopt this culture are more likely to be in trouble with the law. White people can adopt this culture and they will also be criminals. Same with any ethnic group. It's gang culture. It's a choice. I grew up in southern California. Most of us were poor or at least lower income. Hell, we had rich kids that adopted this culture, became criminals, and joined gangs. The minorities that chose to avoid the gang culture graduated school, got jobs, joined the military etc. They were also looked down upon by the others that chose to be criminals. It's a choice.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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25-11-2015, 02:19 PM
RE: State by State Comparison
(25-11-2015 02:11 PM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  What everyone here seems to be overlooking is the whole correlation =/= causation. Correlations are great for the starting point of a hypothesis, but terrible at providing any meaningful evidence. I don't think the point of the OP was to imply causation, but rather to propose a hypothesis regarding an obvious correlation. LDH is providing meaningful input by proposing counter-hypothesis that has required the OP to strengthen his original hypothesis and tease out non-correlating factors from his data. You guys should be thanking LDH, not hating on him.

I have seen no conclusive evidence that proves religion, political affiliation, or demographics to be the cause of criminal activity, stupidity, poverty, etc. What I do see is that these things are intertwined and demonstrate strong correlations. The interconnectedness of local, regional, national, and world-wide historical event combined with cultural conventions dating back centuries and human psychology create societal systems that are np-hard and are unlikely to be explained by gross generalizations.

Except LDH has actually postulated that race is a cause of crime

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25-11-2015, 02:20 PM
RE: State by State Comparison
(25-11-2015 02:12 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(25-11-2015 02:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  People believe what they want to believe, much of the time, but rarely does it ever strike me as productive to refuse to believe what any competent statistical analysis shows beyond any ambiguity.

So, let's just pretend for a moment there isn't an extremely robust correlation between crime and inequality and exclusion. What causal factors do you propose?

I think it's a culture thing. Not necessarily a race thing. That's what people don't get. It's "cool" to be a criminal amongst certain groups. It's a culture that they CHOOSE to live by. Blacks that choose to adopt this culture are more likely to be in trouble with the law. White people can adopt this culture and they will also be criminals. Same with any ethnic group. It's gang culture. It's a choice. I grew up in southern California. Most of us were poor or at least lower income. Hell, we had rich kids that adopted this culture, became criminals, and joined gangs. The minorities that chose to avoid the gang culture graduated school, got jobs, joined the military etc. They were also looked down upon by the others that chose to be criminals. It's a choice.

It isn't a "culture thing," it is a discrimination "thing."

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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