Stephen Hawking : A Brief History of Time
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-01-2012, 01:04 PM
RE: Stephen Hawking : A Brief History of Time
(01-01-2012 04:20 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  No AbdelZ it's not a False conclusion based on a false assumption. It's a logical conclusion based on logic and facts.

The idea of a god is implanted by others and reenforced by endoctrination and Brainwashing.

If you raise a child without the idea of a god they won't beleive in a god. There are several members of this forum who have done just that or have been raised that way.

They are living proof of my point.

What a silly simplistic populistic "reasoning " : ridiculous :

I can turn your "logic" upside down & turn it on its "head " the other way around :

First of all : this is neither a scientific rational nor logical approach of yours : you cannot just say that because some people who were raised in a religious environment & later on rejected religion ,you cannot say just because of that , you are right & that what you say is correct

Second : there are also many people who were raised in an atheistic environment & had become believers later on , what does that say about your "facts ? " haha

I can add a lot more concerning this silly "reasoning " of yours , i will just leave it at that
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-01-2012, 01:47 PM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2012 01:52 PM by FSM_scot.)
RE: Stephen Hawking : A Brief History of Time
(02-01-2012 01:04 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  What a silly simplistic populistic "reasoning " : ridiculous :

I can turn your "logic" upside down & turn it on its "head " the other way around :

First of all : this is neither a scientific rational nor logical approach of yours : you cannot just say that because some people who were raised in a religious environment & later on rejected religion ,you cannot say just because of that , you are right & that what you say is correct

Second : there are also many people who were raised in an atheistic environment & had become believers later on , what does that say about your "facts ? " haha

I can add a lot more concerning this silly "reasoning " of yours , i will just leave it at that

Being raised as an atheist and later finding religion doesn't disprove my point, it strengthens it as those individuals made the conscious choice to believe in a god after being told about gods Through other people either directly or indirectly. Its a perfectly logical and reasonable conclusion to come up with when you look at the facts.
They clearly didn't have it from birth, as that kind of knowledge is learned not inborn!.

You constantly talk about the scientific approach, yet not one of your posts contains anything even remotley scientific or logical.

Teach me your your scientific logical way of thinking oh mighty AbdelZ up there on your high horse, with your fingers in your ears so as to ignore reason. (For the record, that is sarcasm, i remember you had trouble with it in another thread)

Behold the power of the force!
[Image: fgYtjtY.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like FSM_scot's post
02-01-2012, 01:58 PM
RE: Stephen Hawking : A Brief History of Time
(01-01-2012 05:43 PM)kim Wrote:  AbdelZ - Belief or faith, opinions, and interpretations, are all subjective and they do not have to be the same for everyone.
When you talk about science, mathematical proofs, information backed up with solid data such as scientific facts are objective and are held to the same scrutiny by everyone.

It is very obvious you are trying to confuse or blend subjectivity with objectivity, and that is not a rational, objective way to view any science or even solid data without becoming biased in some way.
In fact, it is not even a faithful way to view one's beliefs! It is your choice if you wish to corrupt your faith by trying to incorporate it into scientific data; I want no part of that.
By the same token, I do not appreciate you trying to insinuate your beliefs into a scientific method, and on these points you will probably be resoundingly ignored or taken to task by many for doing so.

And NO, DO NOT SEND ME A PERSONAL MESSAGE -YOU DO NOT HAVE PERMISSION.

I will ignore your subjective non-sense , your psychological black mail & frustrations , your silly insinuations & suggestions , your unnuanced Eurocentrism ...=irrelevent , that put aside :

You obviously haven't read what i said carefully because my answer to some of your above mentioned words is already there :

well, no wonder that your Eurocentric definition of religion reduces the latter to a matter of belief , feeling , subjectivity & spirituality : islam is much more than that : a matter of belief, matter , spirituality ...a matter of matter & spirit as well & beyond , a matter of facts , morallity, easthetics , politics, economics, society...& much more :

As Sam Harris for example proved in a lecture i placed in this forum earlier : the split between morality & facts or between science & morality is an illusion = some kindda morality is more true than other

I add to that by saying : the silly split between facts or truth , morality & easthetics is an illusion = the silly split between science , morality & easthetics is an illusion

that said :

I see that the western separation between matter & spirit , between the spiritual life & the material one, between life & the after-life is yet another illusion you still believe in

islam for example is a dynamic lifetime journey experience within certain islamic beliefs & paradigms, principles ,.....: the only way to understand , feel , see , hear , taste , smell...islam is by going through that islamic experience , by experiencing it , by practicing it because belief & practice or work are inseparable in islam , & no single islamic experience of no single muslim individual is like that of another muslim individual ...

Islam that considers the approach of truth as something dynamic ending with death = death as THE only ultimate certainty in this double sense = when you will die , your future death as a certainty , only then you will know & you will be certain of The Truth with a big T = The Truth as such cannot be known in this life : we can only approach it via islam, via science , via our human experiences , via constant search....via other beliefs , thoughtstreams .....= nobody can know or be certain of The truth with a big T in life , simply because The universe or the creation is still in the process , still taking place ....among other reasons like the fact that human knowledge is both dynamic & historic for the most part at least = finite & infinite = the finite having the seeds of the infinite contained in it that can be unveiled only by belief , by science , by constant search, by human experiences ..... via the whole human being , the latter that can thus therefore contribute to the this dynamic creation of the universe by God , the humans that can become thus creators also in the process= contribute to the dynamic creation of the universe by God , under God of course , while getting closer to God by absorbing God into themselves & thus by becoming creators themselves .........= that's the real definition of human individuality that can be reached that way = see the "Niezschean " biological & spiritual evolution of man in islam, on islamic terms & within the islamic context with the future potential rise of the higher evolved indiviudual huaman creator , in the islamic sense

islam is thus obvioulsy not only a matter of belief, feeling , intuition, but also a matter of intellect , logic , practice , experience , constant search , seeking knowledge , practicing science .....modern science as the legetimate natural daughter of islam : see the islamic origin of the scientific method that can be traced back to the Qur'an mainly

science that helps us explain the sacred & vice versa :

See this article of the washington Post on the matter :

Quote:Stephen Hawking , science & sharia :

http://www.islamicity.com/m/news_frame.a...ceID=57932

Science & islam as the two sides of the same story , despite their different natures


[color=#483D8B]I agree with you by the way that everybody agrees or should agree with the pure scientific facts , while people do not agree unanimously about religion , not even amidst the same religious group , no wonder

You confuse both the nature of science & that of religion : 2 different things

Science tries to approach just the material side of life , while religion or islam in this case is all about all aspects of life , including about ethics , politics , economics , science ....= about matter & about spirit as well & beyond ............................dynamic islam as a set of beliefs & paradigms for example one cannot wait for science to approach in one life time , not to mention that metaphysical matters are far beyond humans ' & far beyond the material science's reach

Islam is thus far above science itself = islam as a broader approach of life & beyond life , islam that can feed back science & vice versa ....


P.S.: No rational human being can deny the pure scientific facts , we do agree on that , but materialism as an ideology paradigm among many, that has been dominating in exact sciences as in human sciences , excluding all non-materialistic paradigms in the process, had imposed some materialistic prescriptive interpretative speculative matters to science as scientific facts , ironically enough , so :

there is a also another matter : the pure scientific facts & their interpretation are 2 different things

One final note : objectivity does not exist , not even at the level of exact sciences : only islam as the only objective universal true neutral view of life can enable us to be objective ............universal...........we cannot absolutely otherwise
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-01-2012, 02:21 PM
RE: Stephen Hawking : A Brief History of Time
(02-01-2012 01:58 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  One final note : objectivity does not exist , not even at the level of exact sciences : only islam as the only objective universal true neutral view of life can enable us to be objective ............universal...........we cannot absolutely otherwise [/b]

You say "objectivity does not exist" then "islam as the only objective universal true neutral view of life can enable us to be objective".
Come on, now You're contradicting yourself in the same sentence.

You also come in from the viewpoint that islam is correct, you can't possibly say you have a Neutral Point of View on life, when it is biased due to your religious beliefs.

Behold the power of the force!
[Image: fgYtjtY.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes FSM_scot's post
02-01-2012, 02:23 PM
RE: Stephen Hawking : A Brief History of Time
(02-01-2012 01:47 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  
(02-01-2012 01:04 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  What a silly simplistic populistic "reasoning " : ridiculous :

I can turn your "logic" upside down & turn it on its "head " the other way around :

First of all : this is neither a scientific rational nor logical approach of yours : you cannot just say that because some people who were raised in a religious environment & later on rejected religion ,you cannot say just because of that , you are right & that what you say is correct

Second : there are also many people who were raised in an atheistic environment & had become believers later on , what does that say about your "facts ? " haha

I can add a lot more concerning this silly "reasoning " of yours , i will just leave it at that

Being raised as an atheist and later finding religion doesn't disprove my point, it strengthens it as those individuals made the conscious choice to believe in a god after being told about gods Through other people either directly or indirectly. Its a perfectly logical and reasonable conclusion to come up with when you look at the facts.
They clearly didn't have it from birth, as that kind of knowledge is learned not inborn!.

You constantly talk about the scientific approach, yet not one of your posts contains anything even remotley scientific or logical.

Teach me your your scientific logical way of thinking oh mighty AbdelZ up there on your high horse, with your fingers in your ears so as to ignore reason. (For the record, that is sarcasm, i remember you had trouble with it in another thread)




Try to read the works of the British philosophers of ethics : Locke, Hume & others concerning the religious innate biological spiritual instinct , the instinctive biological spiritual innate morality ethics compas , concerning the universal & cultural elements of the so-called common sense ....then & only then, see what modern science has to say about just that while trying not to confuse the pure scientific facts nobody can deny as such with their materialistic interpretation , while you should be trying to reject some so-called 'scientific facts " that are just materialistic prescriptive speculative interpretative ideological matters such as the materialistic 'scientific facts" like the "fact " that life is just a matter of material processes , like the "fact " that consciousness was the product of evolution = the product of our so-called evolutionary complexity of our brain = emergent property theory for example ...

Good luck

You obviously do not know what you have been talking about , contradicting yourself , self-refuting , self-defeating yourself ..., read what i said here above for example to participant Kim

Second : you are making no sense whatsoever

Third : i love humor, irony, sarcasm ....................the intelligent inspiring funny ones at least , so , you have no idea


Fourth :

read this unique book :

"Geography of Thought " or how Asians & westerners think differently & why ? By culture psychologist Richard E.Nisbett , even though it's just an evolutionary liberal secular view
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-01-2012, 02:24 PM
RE: Stephen Hawking : A Brief History of Time
(02-01-2012 01:47 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Teach me your your scientific logical way of thinking oh mighty AbdelZ up there on your high horse, with your fingers in your ears so as to ignore reason. (For the record, that is sarcasm, i remember you had trouble with it in another thread)




Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like cufflink's post
02-01-2012, 02:31 PM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2012 02:34 PM by FSM_scot.)
RE: Stephen Hawking : A Brief History of Time
(02-01-2012 02:23 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  You obviously do not know what you have been talking about , contradicting yourself , self-refuting , self-defeating yourself ..., read what i said here above for example to participant Kim

Second : you are making no sense whatsoever

You have perfectly summarised everyone of YOUR posts, nonsensical rambling to disguise the fact that you are absolutely clueless about whichever subject you feel you are a master of.
Just because you have trouble opening your mind to anything that doesn't fit into your biased narrow minded view of the world, doesn't make everyone else wrong.

Saying which books/documentarys we should watch/read also doesn't make you right, i don't see how you've not understood this yet.

Behold the power of the force!
[Image: fgYtjtY.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-01-2012, 02:40 PM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2012 02:56 PM by AbdelZ.)
RE: Stephen Hawking : A Brief History of Time
(02-01-2012 02:21 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  
(02-01-2012 01:58 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  One final note : objectivity does not exist , not even at the level of exact sciences : only islam as the only objective universal true neutral view of life can enable us to be objective ............universal...........we cannot absolutely otherwise [/b]

You say "objectivity does not exist" then "islam as the only objective universal true neutral view of life can enable us to be objective".
Come on, now You're contradicting yourself in the same sentence.

You also come in from the viewpoint that islam is correct, you can't possibly say you have a Neutral Point of View on life, when it is biased due to your religious beliefs.

I see no contradictions in there = objectivity does not exist , so , only the islamic objectivity through which we can see the universe can make us objective we cannot be otherwise , because the islamic objectivity is divine & is thus the only real objectivity that matches our innate nature , comprende ?

oh, boy : intelligent remarks you have there :

this opens the door to a variety of insights , perspectives ...like the fact that we possess an innate instinctive biological & spiritual knowledge of the infinite that get perverted by culture , while our actual knowledge that's both historic & dynamic , to some extent at least , is finite while containg the seeds of the infinite

So, islam as containing both the finite & infinite matches our innate infinite nature = the objectivity of islam matches our infinite innate nature if it's not perverted by culture

concerning your second point :

that's a tough one also haha , i must admit , but :

I tried to learn about most religions, thoughtstreams, including the atheistic beliefs .....only islam could make me see the universe in a way that's far superior to the rest + islam as the last original authentic testament to all humanity = universal, while all previous prophets were sent by Allah only to their own peoples , including jewish prophet -human great noble Jesus we believe in, including the great Moses & the rest ...............whose original messages were falsified beyond any recognition ....(even religion had evolved , you see ) , while Mohammed was the very last prophet who was sent not only to all humanity but was also sent to Jinns ( you can laugh about the latter if you want to, fact is : there are many degrees of reality & correspondent degrees of consciousness that are hidden to most of us, most of us can never reach ) .....
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-01-2012, 02:54 PM
RE: Stephen Hawking : A Brief History of Time
(02-01-2012 02:40 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  I see no contradictions in there = objectivity does not exist , so , only the islamic objectivity through which we can see the universe can make us objective
You have just said objectivity doesnt exist then said it does exist, then try to justify it by saying it exists through islam which is correct because its devine, Wheres your proof its devine and not a creation of man?


Quote:that's a tough one haha , i must admit , but :

I tried to learn about most religions, thoughtstreams, including the atheistic beliefs .....only islam could make me see the universe in a way that'far superior to the rest + islam as the last original authentic testament to all humanity = universal, while all previous prophets were sent by Allah only to their own peoples , including jewish prophet -human great noble jesus we believe in, including the great Moses & the rest ...............whose original messages were falsified beyond any recognition ....(even religion had evolved , you see ) , while Mohammed was the very last prophet to was sent not only to all humanity but was also sent to Jinns ( you can laugh about the latter if you want to, fact is : there are many degrees of reality & correspondent degrees of consciousness that are hidden to most of us ) .....

All religions including islam have been edited and falsified to suit whoever was incharge at the time. it is no more reliable or factual than any other faith.

Have you tried pastafarianism? Try it for 30 days and if you are not completely satisfied then most likely your old deity will take you back.

Behold the power of the force!
[Image: fgYtjtY.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes FSM_scot's post
02-01-2012, 03:37 PM
RE: Stephen Hawking : A Brief History of Time
(02-01-2012 02:54 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  
(02-01-2012 02:40 PM)AbdelZ Wrote:  I see no contradictions in there = objectivity does not exist , so , only the islamic objectivity through which we can see the universe can make us objective
You have just said objectivity doesnt exist then said it does exist, then try to justify it by saying it exists through islam which is correct because its devine, Wheres your proof its devine and not a creation of man?


Quote:that's a tough one haha , i must admit , but :

I tried to learn about most religions, thoughtstreams, including the atheistic beliefs .....only islam could make me see the universe in a way that'far superior to the rest + islam as the last original authentic testament to all humanity = universal, while all previous prophets were sent by Allah only to their own peoples , including jewish prophet -human great noble jesus we believe in, including the great Moses & the rest ...............whose original messages were falsified beyond any recognition ....(even religion had evolved , you see ) , while Mohammed was the very last prophet to was sent not only to all humanity but was also sent to Jinns ( you can laugh about the latter if you want to, fact is : there are many degrees of reality & correspondent degrees of consciousness that are hidden to most of us ) .....

All religions including islam have been edited and falsified to suit whoever was incharge at the time. it is no more reliable or factual than any other faith.

Have you tried pastafarianism? Try it for 30 days and if you are not completely satisfied then most likely your old deity will take you back.


The difference between you & me (if you had read carefully what i said at least , which i doubt seriously ) is that i do know what i am talking about, you do not , you know obviously nothing about islam, let alone about other beliefs , other than yours & the one you cited , i guess, so = end discussion
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: