Stereotypes that hurt atheism
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07-06-2012, 06:44 PM
Stereotypes that hurt atheism
Short version is atheism being seen as "immoral", "pleasure seeking" or "sex perverts" type of thing, and you see things that don't prove it, but don't exactly help your cause.

Not going to say how I know this (just think of whatever Smile ) but like on dating sites, I notice that a LOT of people into swinging, cheating, one of the GLBT groups, etc list themselves as atheist or agnostic. Which I have no problem with at all (and with the GLBT groups, I can easily see why....), but then I realize that almost none of them seem to be Christian or any other religion. This creates a situation with me in the sense of if someone were to say "atheists are _____ (insert something from above)", I can't disprove it, rather I can only think of things to act as some proof toward it.

Granted, I know they are not related... and trying to get people to understand is all-but pointless at times, but does anyone have any reply that might be better than others if such a thing comes up?

Example:
I run into a theist, discussion ensues, they say "atheists are sexual perverts who just cheat and swing"
I know that almost all I see on-line doing such things are listed as agnostic/atheist.

What would be a good response other than "sexuality and atheism aren't related"? Or is that really the best response?
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07-06-2012, 07:06 PM
RE: Stereotypes that hurt atheism
(07-06-2012 06:44 PM)elemts Wrote:  Short version is atheism being seen as "immoral", "pleasure seeking" or "sex perverts" type of thing, and you see things that don't prove it, but don't exactly help your cause.

Not going to say how I know this (just think of whatever Smile ) but like on dating sites, I notice that a LOT of people into swinging, cheating, one of the GLBT groups, etc list themselves as atheist or agnostic. Which I have no problem with at all (and with the GLBT groups, I can easily see why....), but then I realize that almost none of them seem to be Christian or any other religion. This creates a situation with me in the sense of if someone were to say "atheists are _____ (insert something from above)", I can't disprove it, rather I can only think of things to act as some proof toward it.

Granted, I know they are not related... and trying to get people to understand is all-but pointless at times, but does anyone have any reply that might be better than others if such a thing comes up?

Example:
I run into a theist, discussion ensues, they say "atheists are sexual perverts who just cheat and swing"
I know that almost all I see on-line doing such things are listed as agnostic/atheist.

What would be a good response other than "sexuality and atheism aren't related"? Or is that really the best response?

I don't think there is a strong link between permissiveness and atheism. In Roman Catholicism partakers of lust can seek forgivenness from the priest and may not look to practical things as strongly as some atheists.

As a young man I was involved in swinging at one stage;there were certainly church goers in the group. No
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07-06-2012, 07:09 PM
RE: Stereotypes that hurt atheism
You could say that all catholic priests molest little boys too. it's like the only thing you'll find online if you search for sexual activity of catholic priests.

One's belief system is unfortunately linked to everything else about them. It shouldn't be so.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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07-06-2012, 07:33 PM
RE: Stereotypes that hurt atheism
People have sex all the time. You will be hard pressed to find someone who hasn't had sex before marriage. I don't know about finding statistics about swinging, not sure if that's included in the National Census. But what is interesting are the numbers of declared Christians in America, compared to the divorce rate. These numbers can be interpreted in a number of ways.



Total Population
in America (Legal Citizens):



1990: 175 Million


2001: 207 Million


2008: 228 Million


Declared
Christians in America:



1990: 151 Million (86.3% of population)


2001: 160 Million (77.3% of population)


2008: 173 Million (75.9% of population)


Marriage Rates in
America (Per 1,000 People):



1990: 9.8


2001: 8.3


2008: 6.8


Divorce Rates in
America (Per 1,000 People)



1990: 4.7 (48%)


2001: 4.2 (50.6% of Marriages)


2008: 3.4 (50% of Marriages)




Christians hold sex as a ritual between man and wife. Yet, while the numbers of Christianity consistently decline, divorce has stayed at about 50% going back to 1980. So about atheists being all about sex and not marriage, i don't see the evidence to support it. I see divorce staying the same while marriages and Christians numbers go down. People focus too much on their own experience and they depend too much online.
While the internet is vast, not everyone lives there. Ron Paul was the favorite in nearly every online poll and was definitely favorite among the above average internet user, yet he did not get close to the numbers he did for republican nomination. I see a lot of porn online and almost all the women have glorious breasts and can take just about anything up their vagina and deep throat about anything as well. Yet you will be hard pressed to find many woman that can perform the way a porn star can perform, and the same goes for men.
This goes back to being able to prove what you state. If I witness only the Packers play football, and I only witness them winning, then in my mind they are the best team ever. But if I pay attention to the whole league, that is not the case.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

And yet another interesting topic I am not interested in.
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07-06-2012, 07:59 PM
RE: Stereotypes that hurt atheism
I'd say that it's very rare even for Christians to last out an engagement without... engaging. I do know a number of dedicated Christians who despite dalliances with their fiancée before marriage have only "known" their single partner for life. Part of the excuse for this can be that "in the eyes of god" the marriage actually started when the engaging happened.

Still even this group may admit to heavy petting happening at some point with an individual before meeting their life partner.

Yes, I'm describing myself here.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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07-06-2012, 08:22 PM
RE: Stereotypes that hurt atheism
Morality is a construct of the religions to control their people, I'm not one of their people.
The moral label is a method used to judge others behavior based on religious dogma.
The label is irrelevant to atheists. I don't care what the religious think of each other.
Example: If a Christian pastor comes out as gay he has to resign. If a friend of mine comes out as gay nothing changes.
It's time to take these bullshit moral ideas and send them packing.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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07-06-2012, 08:34 PM
RE: Stereotypes that hurt atheism
There is nothing "immoral' about two, three or more consenting adults engaging in consensual intercourse or advertising for it in any way they see fit. You may not like it, but you don't have to participate if you don't want to. And if it offends you so much, why are you even on those sites anyway?

The secret to a happy life is lowering your expectations to the point where they are already met
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07-06-2012, 08:36 PM
RE: Stereotypes that hurt atheism
(07-06-2012 08:34 PM)PeterKA Wrote:  There is nothing "immoral' about two, three or more consenting adults engaging in consensual intercourse or advertising for it in any way they see fit. You may not like it, but you don't have to participate if you don't want to. The choice is always yours.
...and post it on the web for the enjoyment of others. Yea baby Shocking

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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07-06-2012, 08:43 PM
RE: Stereotypes that hurt atheism
(07-06-2012 08:36 PM)Thomas Wrote:  
(07-06-2012 08:34 PM)PeterKA Wrote:  There is nothing "immoral' about two, three or more consenting adults engaging in consensual intercourse or advertising for it in any way they see fit. You may not like it, but you don't have to participate if you don't want to. The choice is always yours.
...and post it on the web for the enjoyment of others. Yea baby Shocking
At least we atheists know that no one is watching us. Not sure I could perform very well if I was certain God was watching over my shoulder taking notes. Maybe I should try freaking out a catholic by saying "Dont worry, God's watching" when she starts to climax

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07-06-2012, 09:21 PM
RE: Stereotypes that hurt atheism
(07-06-2012 08:43 PM)PeterKA Wrote:  At least we atheists know that no one is watching us. Not sure I could perform very well if I was certain God was watching over my shoulder taking notes.

Well OF COURSE God is watching! Haven't you ever been in an intimate situation where at a crucial moment your partner yells out "OH GOD!!!!"? Who else would they be talking to if not God?? I mean, you don't go around saying "Oh Mr. Policeman!" if there's no policeman around, do you?

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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