Sterotypes I don't get
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28-03-2011, 06:53 PM
 
RE: Sterotypes I don't get
(27-03-2011 07:40 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  Write. Take pictures. Educate the ignorance. Ink your truth...on paper this time. Wink

I'm quite pleased you said this because I'd like to take this opportunity to educate the ignorance in your first post.

(27-03-2011 01:03 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  I think it's considered racist today because whites are suppose to apologize for the history they had nothing to do with,

A common misperception by white folks who know nothing of African-Americans nor the history of African-Americans in this country. First off, it's common sense that no white person alive today had anything to do with slavery. However it is important to note that this does not mean that no white people alive today had anything to do with racism and the perpetuation of oppression against African-Americans. This is obvious.

In regards to the concept of "white guilt", it needs to be understood that it is a completely selfish reaction to the issue of African-American history. Instead of learning and understanding the history, the white person who experiences white guilt, personalizes the concept and considers it an attack on their person which is a big mistake and is an obstacle to not only understanding this enormous topic, but also to our ability to progress past it. This is why racism still exists today. This country is incapable of having an honest dialogue on race.

Here's a great video from my hero Tim Wise explaining the difference between guilt and responsibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhOh_EGe41Y

(27-03-2011 01:03 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  so as to make for a perpetual victim/slave mentality that then fragments the black and white community with old news, that is intended to inflame old history and the scars that are perpetually brought into the new centuries.

Gassy Kitten, do you realize that Japanese-Americans who were interned illegally during WW2, were given an official apology from the US Government in 1988 as well as over $1.6 billion in reparations? This for only a few years.

Yet African-Americans, who for centuries were raped, tortured, murdered, lynched, abused, who had families torn apart, were bought and sold like livestock (indeed, up until 1860, slaves were listed alongside livestock and crops on a slave owners' asset list...not even a name or age were required). They had their culture, religion, and very names taken away with them. Had Christianity forced on them and were given Christian names. For centuries they were forced to work 16+ hour days for zero pay and very little food. As a matter of fact, because they were given the worst cuts of meats consisting primarily of gristle and fat and were given very little vegetables or quality foods, over the course of centuries, this actually had the effect of resulting in hereditary high blood pressure and a propensity to develop diabetes. Darwin's theory at work!

So as I was saying, centuries of a formal system of apartheid and the US Government FINALLY apologizes in 2008. 2008!! Yet not a dime for those who built this country economically and structurally. The very capital of our country was largely built by African American slaves.

(27-03-2011 01:03 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  While, when it comes to the relationship that's cultivated from that in today's blended society, one finds racism is not an exclusive to whites. Blacks can be racists too. While the stereotype that is claimed to perpetuate that racist chasm so that mutual respect as people is thought to never be able to be achieved, is proven to be an elective cause for conflict.

It all depends on what you mean by racism. If you are talking about a personal held interpretation of what racism is, then I can't really debate you on that because I have no idea of your definition of racism. However if we are talking about the dictionary definition, then there is an aspect of the definition that people leave out. The issue of "inherent superiority" in that, for a person to be racist -by the book definition- they have to also believe their race to be inherently superior to other races. This is an ingrained aspect of white racism and is not typical of so-called "black racism".

Then there is the version 2.0 definition of race that those educated on this issue use and which comes in form of an equation. Racism=Prejudice+Power.

To explain, there needs to be a common understanding of the dynamic of this country. Some facts:

-approximately 97% of management positions in Fortune 1000 companies are held by white males. Management - the people who do the hiring.

-black unemployment is double the rate of white unemployment. When you consider that it's mostly whites in the positions to hire, does this come as any surprise?

-Research indicates that job applicants with white sounding names have a 50 percent better chance of being called back for an interview than their counterparts with black-sounding names, even when all qualifications are the same. A fact which not only proves beyond any measure of a doubt that there is discrimination against blacks but also proves that there exists a distinct privilege to being white or having a name which is thought of to be white.

-A massive nationwide study estimated that at least 1 million cases of blatant job discrimination against blacks, Latinos and Asian Americans happens each year, affecting roughly one-in-three job seekers of color.

-Black males with college degrees are almost twice as likely as their white male counterparts to be out of work.

-There are millions of cases of race-based housing discrimination against people of color each year.

-Reports of blatant racism practiced by Wells Fargo, which was deliberately roping black borrowers (to whom they referred as “mud people”) into high-cost loans, targeting them for these instruments, and even falsifying credit histories to make black applicants look like greater risks than they were, so as to justify the scam.

-A study demonstrated that e-mail inquiries about rental property submitted by people with white sounding names were 60 percent more likely than those with black sounding names to get a positive response from a landlord (meaning an indication that a unit was available for rent), even when the housing had been previously advertised as available.

-Data from the Justice Department explains how blacks are far more likely than whites to have their cars and persons searched after a traffic stop, even though whites, when searched, are more than four times as likely to have drugs or other illegal contraband on them.

-Data shows that although whites and blacks use and sell drugs at roughly the same rates, African Americans are anywhere from 2.8 to 5.5 times more likely than whites to be arrested for a drug offense. On the state level, data indicates that in nine states, blacks are arrested at more than seven times the rate of whites, and in Minnesota and Iowa at rates that are more than eleven times greater than white arrest rates for drugs. More data suggests that blacks are more than 10 times as likely as whites to be sent to prison for drug offenses, despite relatively equivalent rates of drug crimesand a majority of persons admitted to prison for drug offenses are black, even though there are about six times more white users nationwide.

I could go on and on and on and on but I hope you get the point. This is all stuff that happens TODAY. Not 150 years ago. For white folks, like yourself, who do not know these facts it's very easy to dismiss black claims of racism and to believe racism is in the past or at the very least isn't as bad as "they" make it. The point is, that so called racism perpetrated by blacks often comes in a very personal form; calling you a cracker or such. Small time offenses without any potent institutional force to back them up.

However when whites perpetrate racism against blacks, it comes in all the forms I listed above and then some given the simply fact that whites by and large run this country. And not only that, but a simple verbal insult from a white person towards a black person, brings to mind all of these facts in the mind of the black person. Black folks HAVE to know these things for a simple matter of survival. Just like the commonplace practice by black parents of instructing their black sons on how what to do during a traffic stop by police, years before these children are even eligible to drive.

The issue is that racism perpetrated by whites slurs takes place against a backdrop of systemic and institutional racism. And that backdrop–of housing and job discrimination, racial profiling, unequal health care access, and a media that regularly presents blacks in the worst possible light, has the effect of destroying lives and obstructing opportunities.

(27-03-2011 01:03 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  Tyler Perry and Spike Lee are examples. They've both made history, and millions, perpetuating and exploiting for profit the black stereotype. Perry is so successful at it that he made history as the first black person wearing all four hats in the trade (producer, director, screen writer, actor) to create the first black television and movie studios, in Atlanta Georgia.Tyler Perry Productions.

So when it comes to stereotypes, clearly what he and Spike Lee don't get is how they're bad, when those two gentlemen have garnered a fortune from perpetually exploiting them for profit.

They've made millions creating cinema and entertainment that is targeted at blacks. When you have Elizabeth Taylor playing Cleopatra is it any wonder? Take a look at the average TV channel and see just how much marketing is targeted at white folks. Do you ever see commercials for black beauty products? Black hair products? No. It's skinny ass bony white broads trying to get you to buy white beauty products. This is why there exists a channel such as BET - because every other damn channel is WET.

(27-03-2011 01:03 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  Personally, when someone lives up to the stereotype, they shouldn't be surprised when the stereotypical judgments for their actions are forthcoming. When blacks call blacks niggers, (not, niggas) white's don't have anything to apologize for.

Wrong and wrong again.

Do you understand WHY many blacks employ the use of the N word? Do you even understand it's origin? Has it ever occurred to you that blacks use it in an attempt to neutralize it's potency?

Honestly, I'm at an end. I'm quite astounded at your level of ignorance on this subject. I kind of expected more from someone who I think employs logic and reason on the subject of religion yet seems to be running on pure ignorance and a complete lack of understanding of this subject.

I highly recommend that you pickup some books on this subject if for nothing else, to take your own advice on "educating the ignorance". And if you can only muster up the gumption to read one book, let that book be "White Like Me" by Tim Wise.
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28-03-2011, 07:32 PM
RE: Sterotypes I don't get
SANDSD8TY,

I'm not going to address everything you've posted, but I do want to ask something. In your mind, what is/are the solution(s)?

I'm not going to go on and on, but I will say one thing. I moved from the North(where there were few black people) to the South(where there are many). I really did not carry any preconceived notions with me. I will say that the black people here I have encountered have seemed to be doing everything possible to reinforce the negative stereotypes that people associate with them.

How can they be helped to move forward, if they won't even try to help themselves?

My reason for being is to serve as a cat cushion. That is good enough for me. Wink
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28-03-2011, 08:00 PM
 
RE: Sterotypes I don't get
How do I respond when it appears my post hasn't been read, where if it did, your very question would get answered? Did you not see my lengthy, yet still short by all accounts, list of institutional obstacles? Taking all of that into account do you not understand how one could become disenfranchised?

Just another tidbit I wanted to point out. I'm sure most of you haven't heard of redlining. Look it up on wikipedia. From the 1940's to the early 1960's, over $120 billion in home loans were made to whites, preferentially, under the government FHA and VA home loan programs while blacks and other people of color were excluded. If you ever followed the twentieth century history of the USA and couldn't figure out how this country went from two classes: poor and rich during the Great Depression and the years preceding WW2 to a distinct 3-class system: poor/middle/rich in the decade following WW2, redlining is one of the major reasons. Indeed, it virtually created the white middle class as we know it.

Now I don't know about you but my grandfather purchased his home during this time period utilizing the FHA program. His house was handed down to my father and will be given to me on my father's passing. This house even in the current real estate downmarket, is assessed at over $500,000. So here I am, white guy from Jersey, who stands to inherit a half a million dollar asset that my grandfather acquired through a government sanctioned racist program. So even though I have never participated personally in racism, I benefit from this country's racist history and stand to acquire a considerable amount of wealth that was all but off limits to non-whites. Examples such as this explains why on average, white families have a net worth 11 times that of black families.

If that doesn't drive the point home, after all who really understands what $120 billion means in terms of the mid-twentieth century value of the US dollar, how about this fact: it was estimated that the baby-boomer generation of whites in 2003 was in the process of inheriting between $7-10 trillion in assets from their parents and grandparents. Property handed down by those who were able to accumulate assets at a time when people of color weren't able to.

Now this is just one example of many. Don't you think in the face of this as well as the long list I posted above, it's sounds like the pinnacle of ass-hattery to suggest that all a black person born to poverty, born in a state and region famous for it's anti-black racism where most everything is controlled by whites, has to do is just pull himself up by his bootstraps as if none of these obstacles exist? It's a morally bankrupt position and is intellectually dishonest.

How about this trillium, why not ask some of these black folks about their problems?
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28-03-2011, 08:21 PM
RE: Sterotypes I don't get
I read all of both of your posts. I see a lot of pointing out things that have happened in the past, and some things that are still happening. I'm going to ponder this a while.

And no need to get snippy about it. I was polite in addressing you. We all have our own ideas and experiences that shape them. Mine on this subject have been very negative.

My reason for being is to serve as a cat cushion. That is good enough for me. Wink
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29-03-2011, 12:04 AM
RE: Sterotypes I don't get
To make this topic a bit more humorous, an asian girl I dated once called me a twinkie. I thought she meant I was fat. Apparently twinkie is a term for white people who are too into asian culture. Not that I'm white just due to my light skin tone >.> I'm an American mutt damnit!!(mixed race) =p

For the US Transsexual community asians tend to have less problems than whites, though blacks (most I know prefer this term because it is easier to say), latinos, and first borns (native residents) are all much worse off than whites. With of course blacks having twice the issues of any other race. This is from surveys done nationwide.

It can be really hard to accept how foreign black culture is when you look at how things were up north. In places where a minority is extreme generally those of the minority conform to the cultural roles of the majority, but in places where the minority is larger or more equal they focus heavily on creating their own culture. The reason for this is because the culture of the oppressors is oppressive. An easy analogy might be gender, imagine that you moved to an area where there were no women and your choices were to hide your femininity or be constantly harassed by all of the men (this actually happens).

Look a bit at counter cultures and you'll see that a large popularity of stereotype play is that it makes them seem less offensive. I'll agree with you that it helps reinforce the ideas for those on the outside, but it's really not the black community that needs to fix things in this situation.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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