Still Paying For God's Error
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27-01-2015, 01:12 PM
RE: Still Paying For God's Error
(27-01-2015 11:24 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(23-01-2015 01:24 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  The difference is that the Biblical flood was represented as explicitly being God's will - he was trying to wipe the slate clean and start life on the planet over again. People of faith today may argue that this hurricane or that tsunami are God's wrath, or at least that he allows them to happen as part of his unseen plan. Working in "mysterious ways," etc. That's a lot different than a deliberate attempt on the part of the deity to wipe out all of mankind with a single world-wide flood. If that's not genocide what is? And if they had so angered God as to cause him to try and hit the reset button on earthly life, why would we assume ANY of them, from people to chipmunks, went to Heaven?

The thrust of what you wrote, to my understanding, is this:

"And if they had so angered God as to cause him to try and hit the reset button on earthly life, why would we assume ANY of them, from people to chipmunks, went to Heaven?"

It's because I know other scriptures on who goes to heaven and how people may get there. Further, just like you punish children or employees you direct not just for justice or mere spite, but to correct and train them, you ought to think of a merciful God who is correcting via the Flood. The Flood wasn't a thermonuclear attack and also Noah had much time to preach judgment, specifically a flood, to the people of his time. If you heard specifically of a catastrophic flood and then saw it beginning to build you might well trust God then and there for salvation.

You know nothing but your interpretation. You can believe the swill you're spewing, no one else will.

Your god is an ugly, murderous thug relishing the death of the entire population of the planet, for no purpose, he didn't even "cleanse" evil off of the planet.

Making excuses for a genocidal maniac, just makes you look even worse than you already do.

Just dismiss the Noahtic flood as a myth, that's the easy out.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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28-01-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: Still Paying For God's Error
(27-01-2015 11:36 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(27-01-2015 11:24 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The thrust of what you wrote, to my understanding, is this:

"And if they had so angered God as to cause him to try and hit the reset button on earthly life, why would we assume ANY of them, from people to chipmunks, went to Heaven?"

It's because I know other scriptures on who goes to heaven and how people may get there. Further, just like you punish children or employees you direct not just for justice or mere spite, but to correct and train them, you ought to think of a merciful God who is correcting via the Flood. The Flood wasn't a thermonuclear attack and also Noah had much time to preach judgment, specifically a flood, to the people of his time. If you heard specifically of a catastrophic flood and then saw it beginning to build you might well trust God then and there for salvation.

There are now other depictions of going to Heaven.. the concept which didn't exist in the story from the time of their deluging... what would those be? I thought they mainly revolved around believing in Jesus or doing good deeds by God, or asking for forgiveness(other concepts that didn't actually exist to them at the time)

If God thought they were capable of the ones not involving Jesus, it doesn't seem to match his motives for killing them. The same applies to his other like situations like destroying Sodom.

But you think these people would of asked for salvation as they were about the be drowned and God was fine with that, and it makes it a just action since these people are going to heaven then? Even though the motive of this was completely unnecessarily and all of these actions could of been just told as a lie in a story and nobody had to convert in the turmoils of fear. It's just an interpretation of a limited god creating loopholes to his own actions that you want to explain.

I'd like to please correct what you wrote from "limited god--loopholes" to free will is a powerful gift that is matched by God's desire to let us use it, um, freely!

Quote:I thought they mainly revolved around believing in Jesus or doing good deeds by God, or asking for forgiveness(other concepts that didn't actually exist to them at the time)

Corrections: Asking for forgiveness doesn't save/resurrect to heaven. You can punch me then ask for forgiveness but the forgiveness I grant you doesn't make my bruise disappear. Same with doing good deeds, which is most religions but off-base IMO. Redact what you wrote from trust in Jesus to trust in God and you have been "flooded" with my answer. The flood comes and (some/many) people trust in God. This does not alter the (other) purposes of the flood--you will note that flood stories abide worldwide as remarks on the judgments of the divine.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-01-2015, 11:16 AM
RE: Still Paying For God's Error
(27-01-2015 12:27 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(27-01-2015 11:24 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  It's because I know other scriptures on who goes to heaven and how people may get there. Further, just like you punish children or employees you direct not just for justice or mere spite, but to correct and train them, you ought to think of a merciful God who is correcting via the Flood. The Flood wasn't a thermonuclear attack and also Noah had much time to preach judgment, specifically a flood, to the people of his time. If you heard specifically of a catastrophic flood and then saw it beginning to build you might well trust God then and there for salvation.

So you once again have the inside track on the rules. I love how absolutely delusional your metaphors are, and how you think they will make your point to a bunch of sane rational folks. Should I start filling a bathtub when some employees or my children need to be taught a lesson? If that does not scare them into changing their mindset should I dunk their heads below the water's surface until they pay the ultimate price for the sake of "correctness"?

Oh, and you refer to this act and your fantasy father figure as having mercy. What a demented and sick line of thinking! I would have so much more respect for theists if they just recognize an evil act when they read it. The more you defend this crap, the more twisted and morally bankrupt you become.

The difference is that this father is on the other side of death. Not even death thwarts his purposes. God grieves when a wicked person dies but our odds of death remain 1:1.

You're also using in your analogies people as if they are one group who should all have your concepts of mercy applied to them rather than Earth being a sorter of two kinds of people--those who want to trust God for salvation and those who do not. Crises and catastrophes are not the only way to sort but they are one way. Repeating: Noah preached for years to the world that a flood was coming. To be consistent with the Bible texts under study, it wasn't "Oops we're drowning!" but "Noah! Noah! Let us on the boat!" - Did you see the Russell Crowe film, by the way?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-01-2015, 11:19 AM
RE: Still Paying For God's Error
(27-01-2015 01:12 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(27-01-2015 11:24 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The thrust of what you wrote, to my understanding, is this:

"And if they had so angered God as to cause him to try and hit the reset button on earthly life, why would we assume ANY of them, from people to chipmunks, went to Heaven?"

It's because I know other scriptures on who goes to heaven and how people may get there. Further, just like you punish children or employees you direct not just for justice or mere spite, but to correct and train them, you ought to think of a merciful God who is correcting via the Flood. The Flood wasn't a thermonuclear attack and also Noah had much time to preach judgment, specifically a flood, to the people of his time. If you heard specifically of a catastrophic flood and then saw it beginning to build you might well trust God then and there for salvation.

You know nothing but your interpretation. You can believe the swill you're spewing, no one else will.

Your god is an ugly, murderous thug relishing the death of the entire population of the planet, for no purpose, he didn't even "cleanse" evil off of the planet.

Making excuses for a genocidal maniac, just makes you look even worse than you already do.

Just dismiss the Noahtic flood as a myth, that's the easy out.

Christians are not supposed to take easy outs. Nor should you. You will find overall I am remarkably consistent in how I interpret the Bible--as a fundamentalist who has a rationalist mind and considers the source languages and the historical contexts.

The problem as I perceive it is that we have both considered drowning in floods. I think, "Oh, God, save me!" and you, apparently, have thought different things. As with my comments above, this world sorts different kinds of people, and floods are one sorter.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-01-2015, 11:27 AM (This post was last modified: 28-01-2015 03:58 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Still Paying For God's Error
(28-01-2015 11:19 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(27-01-2015 01:12 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  You know nothing but your interpretation. You can believe the swill you're spewing, no one else will.

Your god is an ugly, murderous thug relishing the death of the entire population of the planet, for no purpose, he didn't even "cleanse" evil off of the planet.

Making excuses for a genocidal maniac, just makes you look even worse than you already do.

Just dismiss the Noahtic flood as a myth, that's the easy out.

Christians are not supposed to take easy outs. Nor should you. You will find overall I am remarkably consistent in how I interpret the Bible--as a fundamentalist who has a rationalist mind and considers the source languages and the historical contexts.

The problem as I perceive it is that we have both considered drowning in floods. I think, "Oh, God, save me!" and you, apparently, have thought different things. As with my comments above, this world sorts different kinds of people, and floods are one sorter.

A "sorter?" you make it sound like god is bagging groceries, do you realize just how evil you sound right now?
Here's the hard way, face up to the inherent evil of this myth, realize there is ZERO scientific evidence for this silly myth and be done with it, you no longer have to excuse the god of evil.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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28-01-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: Still Paying For God's Error
(28-01-2015 11:27 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(28-01-2015 11:19 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Christians are not supposed to take easy outs. Nor should you. You will find overall I am remarkably consistent in how I interpret the Bible--as a fundamentalist who has a rationalist mind and considers the source languages and the historical contexts.

The problem as I perceive it is that we have both considered drowning in floods. I think, "Oh, God, save me!" and you, apparently, have thought different things. As with my comments above, this world sorts different kinds of people, and floods are one sorter.

A "sorter?" you make it sound like god is bagging groceries, do you realize just how evil you sound right now?
Here's the hard way, face up to the inherent evil of this myth, realize their is ZERO scientific evidence for this silly myth and be done with it, you no longer have to excuse the god of evil.

But that's what the Earth is. A sorter PLUS YOU GET TO SORT YOURSELF PER FREE WILL, so why the complaint?

I mean, when YOU go someday, I hope you go up! Believe me, I do. But if you don't, what will you tell Jesus? Sorry, The Q only told me 125 times a month to trust in you, but I chose to be hard-hearted 125 times a month...

...Or will you say, yes, I heard you gave up heaven for me, were tortured and died on a cross for me, but I run my own show...

It's not like the Christian gospel is tough, except on man's pride. It's a FREE GIFT to go to heaven if you wish it, and Christians often and fervently share.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-01-2015, 11:56 AM
RE: Still Paying For God's Error
(28-01-2015 11:16 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(27-01-2015 12:27 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  So you once again have the inside track on the rules. I love how absolutely delusional your metaphors are, and how you think they will make your point to a bunch of sane rational folks. Should I start filling a bathtub when some employees or my children need to be taught a lesson? If that does not scare them into changing their mindset should I dunk their heads below the water's surface until they pay the ultimate price for the sake of "correctness"?

Oh, and you refer to this act and your fantasy father figure as having mercy. What a demented and sick line of thinking! I would have so much more respect for theists if they just recognize an evil act when they read it. The more you defend this crap, the more twisted and morally bankrupt you become.

The difference is that this father is on the other side of death. Not even death thwarts his purposes. God grieves when a wicked person dies but our odds of death remain 1:1.

You're also using in your analogies people as if they are one group who should all have your concepts of mercy applied to them rather than Earth being a sorter of two kinds of people--those who want to trust God for salvation and those who do not. Crises and catastrophes are not the only way to sort but they are one way. Repeating: Noah preached for years to the world that a flood was coming. To be consistent with the Bible texts under study, it wasn't "Oops we're drowning!" but "Noah! Noah! Let us on the boat!" - Did you see the Russell Crowe film, by the way?

OK, you progressed further into defending evil acts, which is what I said in my post that pisses me off. Sorting? Extermination? And what friggin boat you dolt! The need for this figure to be true for you has so poisoned your mind that it is sad to push this conversation any further.

And a Hollywood depiction of a mythical story is supposed to shed light on the flood? Grow up and take a long hike into fantasy land.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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28-01-2015, 12:00 PM
RE: Still Paying For God's Error
(28-01-2015 11:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-01-2015 11:27 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  A "sorter?" you make it sound like god is bagging groceries, do you realize just how evil you sound right now?
Here's the hard way, face up to the inherent evil of this myth, realize their is ZERO scientific evidence for this silly myth and be done with it, you no longer have to excuse the god of evil.

But that's what the Earth is. A sorter PLUS YOU GET TO SORT YOURSELF PER FREE WILL, so why the complaint?

I mean, when YOU go someday, I hope you go up! Believe me, I do. But if you don't, what will you tell Jesus? Sorry, The Q only told me 125 times a month to trust in you, but I chose to be hard-hearted 125 times a month...

...Or will you say, yes, I heard you gave up heaven for me, were tortured and died on a cross for me, but I run my own show...

It's not like the Christian gospel is tough, except on man's pride. It's a FREE GIFT to go to heaven if you wish it, and Christians often and fervently share.

Don't patronize you insane jackass! It is not too tough to understand, it is just too tough for you to face facts and acknowledge what the man made stories and tales really are. The deluded arrogance is damn incredible on this one!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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28-01-2015, 12:01 PM
RE: Still Paying For God's Error
(28-01-2015 11:13 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(27-01-2015 11:36 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  There are now other depictions of going to Heaven.. the concept which didn't exist in the story from the time of their deluging... what would those be? I thought they mainly revolved around believing in Jesus or doing good deeds by God, or asking for forgiveness(other concepts that didn't actually exist to them at the time)

If God thought they were capable of the ones not involving Jesus, it doesn't seem to match his motives for killing them. The same applies to his other like situations like destroying Sodom.

But you think these people would of asked for salvation as they were about the be drowned and God was fine with that, and it makes it a just action since these people are going to heaven then? Even though the motive of this was completely unnecessarily and all of these actions could of been just told as a lie in a story and nobody had to convert in the turmoils of fear. It's just an interpretation of a limited god creating loopholes to his own actions that you want to explain.

I'd like to please correct what you wrote from "limited god--loopholes" to free will is a powerful gift that is matched by God's desire to let us use it, um, freely!

Quote:I thought they mainly revolved around believing in Jesus or doing good deeds by God, or asking for forgiveness(other concepts that didn't actually exist to them at the time)

Corrections: Asking for forgiveness doesn't save/resurrect to heaven. You can punch me then ask for forgiveness but the forgiveness I grant you doesn't make my bruise disappear. Same with doing good deeds, which is most religions but off-base IMO. Redact what you wrote from trust in Jesus to trust in God and you have been "flooded" with my answer. The flood comes and (some/many) people trust in God. This does not alter the (other) purposes of the flood--you will note that flood stories abide worldwide as remarks on the judgments of the divine.

Any elements outside of connecting flood stories having other meanings shouldn't be relevant to a God who can use all the power he wants to make his message clear. Like I said about loopholes, all of that is explaining him not being Omni-anything, if that's the god you worship, then fine, but he isn't trustworthy to his word then. How do you know he isn't lying when he says he's the one true god or that he created evil?

His message was direct and clear with free will to all the early characters of the story form Adam to Abraham, and Satan if you through that interpretation angel into the mix... they had as much free will and direct explanation of God's prowess without needed ancient textual records that don't measure as something worthy to trust.

Though your understanding of psychology is quite odd.. why would people being drowned suddenly trust in a God they may of never heard of? If all these generations decided to be deceitful and evil, how do you know they even understood god? He's not described as visiting them, but he chooses who he wants to visit. And he decides now that the whole visiting thing apparently isn't worth doing.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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28-01-2015, 12:01 PM
RE: Still Paying For God's Error
(28-01-2015 11:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-01-2015 11:27 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  A "sorter?" you make it sound like god is bagging groceries, do you realize just how evil you sound right now?
Here's the hard way, face up to the inherent evil of this myth, realize their is ZERO scientific evidence for this silly myth and be done with it, you no longer have to excuse the god of evil.

But that's what the Earth is. A sorter PLUS YOU GET TO SORT YOURSELF PER FREE WILL, so why the complaint?

I mean, when YOU go someday, I hope you go up! Believe me, I do. But if you don't, what will you tell Jesus? Sorry, The Q only told me 125 times a month to trust in you, but I chose to be hard-hearted 125 times a month...

...Or will you say, yes, I heard you gave up heaven for me, were tortured and died on a cross for me, but I run my own show...

It's not like the Christian gospel is tough, except on man's pride. It's a FREE GIFT to go to heaven if you wish it, and Christians often and fervently share.

I won't tell your imaginary god anything because it doesn't exist. I just clearly pointed out to you what a flawed and unreasonable story the flood myth is, I would be glad to show you the science that disproves this childish story, but I don't believe it would do any good until you become aware and disgusted by your cognitive dissonance.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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