"Stop asking for evidence for God"
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19-08-2014, 05:53 PM
"Stop asking for evidence for God"
I recently heard this argument the other day… Help?


"If God created reality, He cannot be separate from it. He did not create this part of reality over here, but not that one over there. He created all of reality. That being the case, he cannot be separate from reality.
Now let's examine the word evidence. Evidence is evidence of "something specific" as opposed to everything else. If I give you proof that this fruit is an apple, is because its different from an orange.
If they were not separate and different, I will not be able to provide evidence of one or the other. That is how science works. It categorizes and differentiates. But you cannot separate God momentarily from reality in order to provide evidence specifically for Him as opposed to everything else. If you could be able to, then it would not be God.
God cannot be proved through the methods of science. Does this mean that that making a claim for God is unjustified ? Of course not.
There are many things that exist but cannot be proven through scientific method. A basic one is consciousness. You cannot prove consciousness. You must assume it, because you must be conscious while you do those other scientific experiments.
Another example is mathematics. You can use those cool second degree differential equations to provide some complex proofs.
But it will all be dependent on mathematical axioms, which cannot be proven but have to be assumed.
So asking for empirical evidence of God is absurd. knowledge of spirituality must come through existential ways. So when you ask for empirical evidence for the spiritual, it means you don't know what you're talking about.
This should put that silly " evidence" question to rest once and for all."



Sounds… circular.

“Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.

-Christopher Hitchens
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19-08-2014, 05:56 PM
RE: "Stop asking for evidence for God"
I'm dizzy just reading it.
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19-08-2014, 06:16 PM
RE: "Stop asking for evidence for God"
Complete bullshit.

If god interacts with or on reality (with as in prayer or on as in being a "first cause") then god is capable of interacting with the physical universe (as by the definition of causing the universe or having a cause and effect relationship in the universe). Anything that interacts with or on the universe, can be detected, measured, and studied.

Only a god that existed outside of the universe and interacted neither in or on the universe could avoid detection. But such a god would be unknowable to humans, meaning that none of the books ever written about it could actually be about it.

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19-08-2014, 06:18 PM
RE: "Stop asking for evidence for God"
That type of "argument" is just complete apologetic word vomit.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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19-08-2014, 06:28 PM
RE: "Stop asking for evidence for God"
(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  I recently heard this argument the other day… Help?


"If God created reality, He cannot be separate from it. He did not create this part of reality over here, but not that one over there. He created all of reality. That being the case, he cannot be separate from reality.
Now let's examine the word evidence. Evidence is evidence of "something specific" as opposed to everything else. If I give you proof that this fruit is an apple, is because its different from an orange.
If they were not separate and different, I will not be able to provide evidence of one or the other. That is how science works. It categorizes and differentiates. But you cannot separate God momentarily from reality in order to provide evidence specifically for Him as opposed to everything else. If you could be able to, then it would not be God.
God cannot be proved through the methods of science. Does this mean that that making a claim for God is unjustified ? Of course not.
There are many things that exist but cannot be proven through scientific method. A basic one is consciousness. You cannot prove consciousness. You must assume it, because you must be conscious while you do those other scientific experiments.
Another example is mathematics. You can use those cool second degree differential equations to provide some complex proofs.
But it will all be dependent on mathematical axioms, which cannot be proven but have to be assumed.
So asking for empirical evidence of God is absurd. knowledge of spirituality must come through existential ways. So when you ask for empirical evidence for the spiritual, it means you don't know what you're talking about.
This should put that silly " evidence" question to rest once and for all."



Sounds… circular.

I can't disprove that venus isn't hollow and full of little blue men who created man in their great sky cauldron either....doesn't make it true.

We wouldn't even know of god and christ if it wasn't for emperor constantine's christian myth fetish resulting in the creation of the triune god concept and the bible's formation. Since the book is easily disproven, and the vast majority of it is pseudepigrapha, parables, interpolations and allegorical writings, to even posit a god exists because the bible says so is childish, misinformed and disingenuous at best.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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19-08-2014, 06:31 PM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2014 06:40 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: "Stop asking for evidence for God"
(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  "If God created reality, He cannot be separate from it. He did not create this part of reality over here, but not that one over there. He created all of reality. That being the case, he cannot be separate from reality.

"Creation" presumes already extant Causality, (as well as intentionality, and many other things). If god is real, and part of Reality, and god created it, then that means god was created, and was not eternally real. Meaningless drivel. "Existence" (of a deity) is only PART of Reality, because as long as the deity existed, non-existence also was real, and Reality was always, of necessity larger than the deity, (or rather the deity *found itself to be a subset of reality*). Oops.

(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  Now let's examine the word evidence. Evidence is evidence of "something specific" as opposed to everything else. If I give you proof that this fruit is an apple, is because its different from an orange. If they were not separate and different, I will not be able to provide evidence of one or the other. That is how science works. It categorizes and differentiates. But you cannot separate God momentarily from reality in order to provide evidence specifically for Him as opposed to everything else. If you could be able to, then it would not be God.

Preposterous. That means evil is a part of the Reality of god.

(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  God cannot be proved through the methods of science. Does this mean that that making a claim for God is unjustified ? Of course not.

True. But there is no coherent definition for the word "god".

(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  There are many things that exist but cannot be proven through scientific method. A basic one is consciousness. You cannot prove consciousness. You must assume it,

Completely false. Whoever cooked up this shit is totally ignorant of Neurology, and Neuro-science.

(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  because you must be conscious while you do those other scientific experiments.

So they just proved themselves wrong.

(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  Another example is mathematics. You can use those cool second degree differential equations to provide some complex proofs. But it will all be dependent on mathematical axioms, which cannot be proven but have to be assumed.

Irrelevant. Fallacy of the false analogy.

(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  So asking for empirical evidence of God is absurd. knowledge of spirituality must come through existential ways. So when you ask for empirical evidence for the spiritual, it means you don't know what you're talking about.
This should put that silly " evidence" question to rest once and for all."

A series of non-sequiturs. Mere wishful assertions, and unexamined presumptions.


*Sounds… circular.*

No. It's meaningless.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-08-2014, 06:33 PM
RE: "Stop asking for evidence for God"
(19-08-2014 06:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  "If God created reality, He cannot be separate from it. He did not create this part of reality over here, but not that one over there. He created all of reality. That being the case, he cannot be separate from reality.

"Creation" presumes already extant Causality. If god is real, and part of Reality, and god created then that means god was created, and was not eternally real. Meaningless drivel. Existence (of a deity) is only PART of Reality, therefor as long as the deity existed, non-existence also existed, (and Reality was always, of necessity) larger than the the deity. Oops.

(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  Now let's examine the word evidence. Evidence is evidence of "something specific" as opposed to everything else. If I give you proof that this fruit is an apple, is because its different from an orange. If they were not separate and different, I will not be able to provide evidence of one or the other. That is how science works. It categorizes and differentiates. But you cannot separate God momentarily from reality in order to provide evidence specifically for Him as opposed to everything else. If you could be able to, then it would not be God.

Preposterous. That means evil is a part of the Reality of god.

(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  God cannot be proved through the methods of science. Does this mean that that making a claim for God is unjustified ? Of course not.

True. But there is no coherent definition for the word "god".

(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  There are many things that exist but cannot be proven through scientific method. A basic one is consciousness. You cannot prove consciousness. You must assume it,

Completely false. Whoever cooked up this shit is totally ignorant of Neurology, and Neuro-science.

(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  because you must be conscious while you do those other scientific experiments.
So they just proved themselves wrong.

(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  Another example is mathematics. You can use those cool second degree differential equations to provide some complex proofs. But it will all be dependent on mathematical axioms, which cannot be proven but have to be assumed.

Irelevant. Fallacy of the false analogy.

(19-08-2014 05:53 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  So asking for empirical evidence of God is absurd. knowledge of spirituality must come through existential ways. So when you ask for empirical evidence for the spiritual, it means you don't know what you're talking about.
This should put that silly " evidence" question to rest once and for all."

A series of non-sequiturs. Mere wishful assertions, and unexamined presumptions.


*Sounds… circular.*

No. It's meaningless.

I like the way you swing the knowledge stick Thumbsup

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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19-08-2014, 06:39 PM
RE: "Stop asking for evidence for God"
His whole argument sounds unfalsifiable. I just told him that he has no justified reason in actually believing that. You just have a presupposition that he did that and choose to believe it.

“Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.

-Christopher Hitchens
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19-08-2014, 06:59 PM
RE: "Stop asking for evidence for God"
BTW, "creation" is an act(ion). It requires time, and thereby refutes an eternal (timeless) environment. "Timeless", "eternal past" and "eternal future" are rendered false, by use of a temporal concept.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-08-2014, 07:28 PM
Re: "Stop asking for evidence for God"
The epitome of word salad, varies phrases in there make no sense.

Knowledge of spirituality must come from existential ways? If you separate God part of God, it's not God? This person just rambling.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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