Stop the Welfare State Vol. 1: Kill the F-35
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-07-2013, 12:45 AM (This post was last modified: 02-07-2013 12:53 AM by earmuffs.)
RE: Stop the Welfare State Vol. 1: Kill the F-35
What possible country could the US go to war with in the next 5-10-50 years??
Iran and NK, that's it!
Sure, maybe some other Middle Eastern country or some North African country, but nothing the west can't handle...

It's a waste of fucking money. We don't live in the 1800's any more. War's between global powerhouses is over.
It was over the moment globalization took hold and everyone in power (as well as ordinary citizens) learned that they can get rich via co-operating, and war would just be a hugely expensive waste of time.


You can keep a meh sized armed UN forces for peacekeeping purposes, everything else is just wasting money.
There's no need for individual countries to have massive armies, especially when we have the means (via something like the UN) that can represent the collective and protect everybody.


If I had my way, each western countries would have small armed forces (like 0.5% of gdp). That country would have control of those armed forces and would train and arm them. BUT the UN would have the political power to use those armed forces for the purposes of protecting the West's interests and peacekeeping missions.
That way the cost is spread over all those that use that benefit of protection, evenly. There would be a good sized armed forces for whatever it's needed for, and money would be freed up to spend on far more important things.

They tell me I'm the shit, I'm like 'duh...'
[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-07-2013, 01:40 AM
RE: Stop the Welfare State Vol. 1: Kill the F-35
The F-35? Terrible thing, and the US is pressuring foreign governments to buy it as well.
So is this just as bad as the F-22 was?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaoYz90giTk

Aspiring optimist
Eternal Pragmatist.
With the uncanny ability to see all sides in every argument.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-07-2013, 02:08 AM (This post was last modified: 02-07-2013 05:31 AM by DeepThought.)
RE: Stop the Welfare State Vol. 1: Kill the F-35
(02-07-2013 12:45 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  What possible country could the US go to war with in the next 5-10-50 years??
Iran and NK, that's it!
Sure, maybe some other Middle Eastern country or some North African country, but nothing the west can't handle...

It's a waste of fucking money. We don't live in the 1800's any more. War's between global powerhouses is over.
It was over the moment globalization took hold and everyone in power (as well as ordinary citizens) learned that they can get rich via co-operating, and war would just be a hugely expensive waste of time.


You can keep a meh sized armed UN forces for peacekeeping purposes, everything else is just wasting money.
There's no need for individual countries to have massive armies, especially when we have the means (via something like the UN) that can represent the collective and protect everybody.


If I had my way, each western countries would have small armed forces (like 0.5% of gdp). That country would have control of those armed forces and would train and arm them. BUT the UN would have the political power to use those armed forces for the purposes of protecting the West's interests and peacekeeping missions.
That way the cost is spread over all those that use that benefit of protection, evenly. There would be a good sized armed forces for whatever it's needed for, and money would be freed up to spend on far more important things.

Muffin Man, I wouldn't be so optimistic about the no war situation. Sure trade and globalization is great. Wait until resources get scarce and there is more competition for resources.

Mix in overpopulation, global food shortages, rising sea levels shrinking the coastline.

You know that sea level has been rising faster than all climate model predictions. The global temperature predictions have been pretty much on track with actual temperature. (Some estimates are on the low side there but mostly within tolerance.) The rising sea level impacts %70 of the world population. The most densely populated areas are around the coastline. Farming will also be affected.

Nobody can predict the future. Not even the mighty Muffin Man!

Nothing causes war more than: "You have something I want and there isn't enough for all of us."
Never underestimate the stupidity of humanity.

I think right now our (humanities) ass is on the line. What happens over the coming decades will determine our future survival. Our species is totally dependent on science for survival. We need genetically modified high yield pest resistant crops to keep up with future food demands. We need the breakthroughs in water treatment and filtration. We need breakthroughs in treating sickness and disease. We need to harden our infrastructure, get away from dependence on fossil fuels.
If we keep headed down this road without this then we are either headed for extinction or the next stone age.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-07-2013, 09:27 AM (This post was last modified: 02-07-2013 09:46 AM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Stop the Welfare State Vol. 1: Kill the F-35
(02-07-2013 02:08 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  I think right now our (humanities) ass is on the line. What happens over the coming decades will determine our future survival. Our species is totally dependent on science for survival. We need genetically modified high yield pest resistant crops to keep up with future food demands. We need the breakthroughs in water treatment and filtration. We need breakthroughs in treating sickness and disease. We need to harden our infrastructure, get away from dependence on fossil fuels.
If we keep headed down this road without this then we are either headed for extinction or the next stone age.

I think we would do better if we focused less on trying to 'progress out' of all of our problems and instead focused on population control and sustainability. Not that we can't have some nice wins from science and not like I wouldn't like to a see a fusion reactor or better batteries, solar panels, (good) GMO, etc.

But the idea that we can science our way through the upcoming crises is a gamble and we should be hedging our bets with sustainability. No matter what science comes up with we are not going to be able to make much more than what millions of years of evolution has come up with in terms of crop yield. The earth can't support this exponential growth forever, and the sooner we curb it the longer our species will have to get the tech up and running and the longer we will have as a species.

Science in this day and age serves the most wealthy and powerful and that is a frightening trend. It's not hard for me to envision a world where there is plenty of science and prosperity for some built on plenty of suffering for most.

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-11-2013, 01:26 PM
RE: Stop the Welfare State Vol. 1: Kill the F-35
Last September, Vanity Fair did one of the most scathing reviews of the F-35 program and it shows what a disaster the Jet is - and we're still 7 years from the end of flight testing with none of the major work accomplished yet.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2013/...eed-martin

It's $1.5 trillion literally being flushed down the Lockheed Martin's solid gold toilet.

The only high note on the F-35 was that two days ago, it successfully dropped a laser guided bomb on an old tank on a gunnery range near Edwards AFB. But that's the only good news story about that program that I know of.

The fire control radar still does not work.

Less than 2% of the F-35's flight control and systems operating software is available for flight test - and the complete software release will only provide limited combat capability for the jet.

The airplane is still restricted to day VFR operations

The helmet mounted display still does not work properly and is causing spatial disorientation for the pilots.

The inert gas generation system for the airplane's fuel tanks cannot inert them properly - which means the F-35 could explode if struck by lightning.

Test pilots claim the lack of visibility out of the jet's cockpit will get them killed in combat.

This dysfunctional jet is "politically engineered" to remain an item due to its design and manufacturing farmed out to over 1,600 major aerospace firms and subcontractors, in 40+ states, who spend millions in lobbying every year to keep it so.

The jet was originally forcast to cost $50 million a copy; some analysists today claim the current price for production F-35s is $219 million - and it just keeps going up.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-11-2013, 04:13 AM
RE: Stop the Welfare State Vol. 1: Kill the F-35
(01-11-2013 01:26 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Last September, Vanity Fair did one of the most scathing reviews of the F-35 program and it shows what a disaster the Jet is - and we're still 7 years from the end of flight testing with none of the major work accomplished yet.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2013/...eed-martin

It's $1.5 trillion literally being flushed down the Lockheed Martin's solid gold toilet.

The only high note on the F-35 was that two days ago, it successfully dropped a laser guided bomb on an old tank on a gunnery range near Edwards AFB. But that's the only good news story about that program that I know of.

The fire control radar still does not work.

Less than 2% of the F-35's flight control and systems operating software is available for flight test - and the complete software release will only provide limited combat capability for the jet.

The airplane is still restricted to day VFR operations

The helmet mounted display still does not work properly and is causing spatial disorientation for the pilots.

The inert gas generation system for the airplane's fuel tanks cannot inert them properly - which means the F-35 could explode if struck by lightning.

Test pilots claim the lack of visibility out of the jet's cockpit will get them killed in combat.

This dysfunctional jet is "politically engineered" to remain an item due to its design and manufacturing farmed out to over 1,600 major aerospace firms and subcontractors, in 40+ states, who spend millions in lobbying every year to keep it so.

The jet was originally forcast to cost $50 million a copy; some analysists today claim the current price for production F-35s is $219 million - and it just keeps going up.

It isn't meant as a viable war machine. Like you said. It's used as a government employment program to help our engineers and help train specialists.

NASAs shuttle programme was wastefull and mostly an employment programme as well. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Having more highly trained qualified people can provide many more flow on benefits.

Looking from a purely military point of view it is a massive mistake.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-11-2013, 06:03 AM
RE: Stop the Welfare State Vol. 1: Kill the F-35
Quote:It's not necessarily a bad thing.

Yes it is.

If you're creating jobs that need to be created because they're not in the market place to begin with than what is the purpose?
It's just glorified welfare.

Look at it this way. Every person in the private sector pays the government in taxes. Every person in the public sector COST the government. It's not rocket science. You need people in the private sector, if you're creating jobs for the sake of creating jobs than you might as well have those people on unemployment benefit, it'd be a hell of a lot cheaper...

I mean yea, some things are worthwhile. Like if you have government schemes that hire people to build things that add value to a country as a sort of temporary thing while the private sector builds up and starts hiring again. ie: some tourist attraction.

But $1.5trillion.. fuck me that's a lot of money for a fucking glorified Sopwith Camel. Especially because I still stand by what I said earlier about how the current one does the job just fine.

They tell me I'm the shit, I'm like 'duh...'
[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-11-2013, 08:12 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2013 08:22 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: Stop the Welfare State Vol. 1: Kill the F-35
(02-11-2013 04:13 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  Looking from a purely military point of view it is a massive mistake.

Herein lies the problem. When you go to war, you go to kill, not get killed. And taking a defective or mediocre piece of equipment into battle will only accomplish the latter. And willfully bilking the US DoD - and by default the American Public - by selling them such a defective piece of equipment while jacking the price up 400% over the quoted cost is tantamount to treason. About half the aerospace firms who participated in the development of this airplane are guilty of that. It's a textbook example of how greedy and insidious the military industrial complex can be.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2013, 03:51 PM
RE: Stop the Welfare State Vol. 1: Kill the F-35
We need a better fighter to compete against all the F-15/16s (and other quality fighters) that we have sold to foreign countries.

RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. - Ambrose Bierce (The Devil's Dictionary)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: