Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
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22-10-2013, 02:38 PM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(22-10-2013 02:33 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 02:23 PM)morondog Wrote:  And the evidence that a. this prophecy actually took place b. some Jesus-type guy fulfilled it is ? Oh and c. even if it was fulfilled, so the ancients had a future-scope ? Why should I care ?

At least now we're back to reality--the HB makes prophecies, and were they fulfilled. R-E-A-L-I-T-Y.

MD:

The three most important Bible doctrines are IMHO:

1. How can someone be saved?

2. Can someone saved lose their salvation?

3. Prophecy--if we're living in the age of Armageddon.

All this stuff is very important, #3 more so when we see Israel is a Jewish, secular nation at war with the surrounding Gentiles, precipitating WW III!
What about all the other previous wars? They thought those were also signs of armageddon. You want nothing more than to see the end of the world, don't you? Can't bare to keep living. Just longing for all the monotony to end.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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22-10-2013, 02:52 PM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(22-10-2013 02:33 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 02:23 PM)morondog Wrote:  And the evidence that a. this prophecy actually took place b. some Jesus-type guy fulfilled it is ? Oh and c. even if it was fulfilled, so the ancients had a future-scope ? Why should I care ?

At least now we're back to reality--the HB makes prophecies, and were they fulfilled. R-E-A-L-I-T-Y.

MD:

The three most important Bible doctrines are IMHO:

1. How can someone be saved?

2. Can someone saved lose their salvation?

3. Prophecy--if we're living in the age of Armageddon.

All this stuff is very important, #3 more so when we see Israel is a Jewish, secular nation at war with the surrounding Gentiles, precipitating WW III!

I fail to see how this addresses my questions. How do you know that the prophecies *were* actual bona fide prophecies ? How do you know that they *were* fulfilled ?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-10-2013, 03:01 PM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
"The Scriptures give unmistakable testimony to those who have full faith in its records, that there is a great time of trouble ahead of the present comparative calm in the world -- a trouble which will embroil all nations, overthrow all existing institutions, civil, social and religious, bring about a universal reign of anarchy and terror, and prostrate humanity in the very dust of despair, thus to make them ready to appreciate the power that will bring order out of that confusion and institute the new rule of righteousness. All this, the Scriptures show us, is to come to pass before the year 1914 (See MILLENNIAL DAWN, Vol. II, Chapter IV.) -- that is, within the next twenty-three years."

--Watch Tower, January 15, 1892, page 19

Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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23-10-2013, 10:01 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
Quote: All this stuff is very important, #3 more so when we see Israel is a Jewish, secular nation at war with the surrounding Gentiles, precipitating WW III!

If you've ever been to Israel, which I have, you would never consider it a "secular" nation. The entire country is religious zealots of the worse kind. Your implication by the word secular is that they are lost or godless. The Jews in Israel are a 75% majority, 17% muslim, and 8% "other." Guess what the majority of the "other" religion is? Yep, Christianity.

So the Jews would consider you to be the lost one, and your nation to be "secular." But you're willing to say whatever you want to slam things into your NT world view, huh?

By the by, I've read pretty much every "prophecy" that was ever attributed to Jesus, and if you read them in your favorite way, in "Context" - they are spectacularly unimpressive. They have nothing at all to do with Jesus.

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

Martin Luther was the "father" of two movements - The Reformation and Nazism.
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23-10-2013, 10:10 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(23-10-2013 10:01 AM)Skippy538 Wrote:  By the by, I've read pretty much every "prophecy" that was ever attributed to Jesus, and if you read them in your favorite way, in "Context" - they are spectacularly unimpressive. They have nothing at all to do with Jesus.

Sometimes I wish someone would put together [a webpage so anyone could access it] an easy to read, point by point, critique of these "prophecies" to show why they aren't. Apologists bring up the "fulfilled prophecies" all the time as it if is a winning argument for their side.
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23-10-2013, 10:31 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(22-10-2013 02:38 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 02:33 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  At least now we're back to reality--the HB makes prophecies, and were they fulfilled. R-E-A-L-I-T-Y.

MD:

The three most important Bible doctrines are IMHO:

1. How can someone be saved?

2. Can someone saved lose their salvation?

3. Prophecy--if we're living in the age of Armageddon.

All this stuff is very important, #3 more so when we see Israel is a Jewish, secular nation at war with the surrounding Gentiles, precipitating WW III!
What about all the other previous wars? They thought those were also signs of armageddon. You want nothing more than to see the end of the world, don't you? Can't bare to keep living. Just longing for all the monotony to end.

Since Israel would be a Jewish nation and there would be a third temple before Armageddon, we would by necessity discount warfare prior to 1967, at least...
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23-10-2013, 10:33 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(22-10-2013 02:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 02:33 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  At least now we're back to reality--the HB makes prophecies, and were they fulfilled. R-E-A-L-I-T-Y.

MD:

The three most important Bible doctrines are IMHO:

1. How can someone be saved?

2. Can someone saved lose their salvation?

3. Prophecy--if we're living in the age of Armageddon.

All this stuff is very important, #3 more so when we see Israel is a Jewish, secular nation at war with the surrounding Gentiles, precipitating WW III!

I fail to see how this addresses my questions. How do you know that the prophecies *were* actual bona fide prophecies ? How do you know that they *were* fulfilled ?

Is the first part of your question whether they were forthtelling? We've been over the second part, haven't we?

What do you think of the Old Testament prophecy that the Jewish Messiah would be worshipped worldwide? Would that be a good example of a valid prophecy we can see fulfilled now?
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23-10-2013, 10:35 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(22-10-2013 03:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  "The Scriptures give unmistakable testimony to those who have full faith in its records, that there is a great time of trouble ahead of the present comparative calm in the world -- a trouble which will embroil all nations, overthrow all existing institutions, civil, social and religious, bring about a universal reign of anarchy and terror, and prostrate humanity in the very dust of despair, thus to make them ready to appreciate the power that will bring order out of that confusion and institute the new rule of righteousness. All this, the Scriptures show us, is to come to pass before the year 1914 (See MILLENNIAL DAWN, Vol. II, Chapter IV.) -- that is, within the next twenty-three years."

--Watch Tower, January 15, 1892, page 19

Tongue

I understand. Thank you for using JW cultic beliefs, which I have denounced on this forum 20 times already. The scriptures DO NOT say prior to 1914.

The scriptures DO SAY there will be a third temple, a Jewish Israel long after a Roman diaspora, a Jewish Messiah worshipped worldwide by gentiles, an armageddon with the Rus-Russia, Gog and Magog-Germanic peoples, and a revived Rome with a center of religious power in the city of Rome. Etc.
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23-10-2013, 10:37 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(23-10-2013 10:01 AM)Skippy538 Wrote:  
Quote: All this stuff is very important, #3 more so when we see Israel is a Jewish, secular nation at war with the surrounding Gentiles, precipitating WW III!

If you've ever been to Israel, which I have, you would never consider it a "secular" nation. The entire country is religious zealots of the worse kind. Your implication by the word secular is that they are lost or godless. The Jews in Israel are a 75% majority, 17% muslim, and 8% "other." Guess what the majority of the "other" religion is? Yep, Christianity.

So the Jews would consider you to be the lost one, and your nation to be "secular." But you're willing to say whatever you want to slam things into your NT world view, huh?

By the by, I've read pretty much every "prophecy" that was ever attributed to Jesus, and if you read them in your favorite way, in "Context" - they are spectacularly unimpressive. They have nothing at all to do with Jesus.

I consider Israel secular in the way I consider America secular and not a Christian nation. I apologize. The NT predicted a non-Messianic, non-Christian Jewish Israel.

Think about that for a moment. The NT prophets did not predict the Christianizing of the world but that miraculously, Jewish people would retain their scriptural knowledge, the Hebrew language, etc. then come after a lengthy diaspora prophesied to last over two millennia into their historic space.
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23-10-2013, 10:39 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(23-10-2013 10:10 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  
(23-10-2013 10:01 AM)Skippy538 Wrote:  By the by, I've read pretty much every "prophecy" that was ever attributed to Jesus, and if you read them in your favorite way, in "Context" - they are spectacularly unimpressive. They have nothing at all to do with Jesus.

Sometimes I wish someone would put together [a webpage so anyone could access it] an easy to read, point by point, critique of these "prophecies" to show why they aren't. Apologists bring up the "fulfilled prophecies" all the time as it if is a winning argument for their side.

There are such pages. One was referenced recently on this forum, and I went there and quit it after seeing the first 15 or so refutations, which I myself refuted in turn.

I WISH apologists would bring up prophecy more often. The average Christian can't name two prophecies. Here are three, just remember the Lord Darth Vader!

-L-ived in Gaililee

son of -D-avid

born of a -V-irgin
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