Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
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04-11-2013, 10:29 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(04-11-2013 09:03 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 08:58 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Oh. Oh lord.

Were you not here for Ralphie's first show? Consider

Oh, I caught a bit of it. What I remembered was having to point out that the dotted lines between constellations aren't actually there in the sky. I'd rather forgotten this piece of insanity.


(04-11-2013 10:09 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 08:58 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Oh. Oh lord.

Try looking tekton up in a Greek dictionary - it means 'freemason'.

Right. Except for the part where it doesn't, since the word was used very broadly to mean craftsman (or even merely expert), coming as it does from the same ultimate root as 'technical' or 'text'.

(04-11-2013 10:09 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  Why do you think that Simon (St Peter) was called Peter-Cephas (the stone-stone) ?

That's... not a thing either. Nobody literally called him that. Those are just Greek and Aramaic versions of the same title.

But of course you've not just used the above to mean a mason, which would be reasonable (notwithstanding that the gospels explicitly say he's a fisherman, mind).

(04-11-2013 10:09 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  Why do you think that Jesus was called the cornerstone?
And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? Lu 20:17

That's called metaphor.

(04-11-2013 10:09 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  Why do you think that the Raising of Lazarus is the same as a modern 3rd degree raising?

It is quite clear that modern masonry was derived from the initiatory Nazarene creed of Jesus and James.

Ralph

You've now claimed a specious connection between an incidental use of the word 'craftsman' and 'modern' Freemasons. Who happen to be a group whose origins are in medieval guilds and are quite plainly acknowledged (unless, of course, IT'S A CONSPIRACY WAKE UP SHEEPLE!).

Saying "it is quite clear" is, er, not an argument.

But, uh, keep on wallowing in that conspiratorial cesspool, I guess...

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04-11-2013, 10:45 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(04-11-2013 07:45 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Ellis's idea of "peer-review" is to haunt fora and the blogverse, looking to confirm his bias of academic persecution. That may work for the uninformed, but having seen how snippy and contentious scholars tend to be amongst each other, the thought that they have the time and will to conspire exceeds credulity.


No, my idea of peer-review is to openly debate my theories in public with academics who are supposed to know this material backwards, and who can potentially point out all my errors. Indeed, I am more than happy to have someone prove me wrong.

However, what happens is the so-called academic tries to defeat my arguments with a load of hogwash. I then point out all the errors in their hogwash. The academic then gets abusive, deletes me from the site, and deletes all my comments to cover up their ignorance.

Try this so-called academic, for instance. Mr Caruso, an Aramaic scholar:
http://aramaicdesigns.blogspot.nl/2013/0...is-er.html

You will note that:

a. All my replies have been deleted.

b. I have been banned from the site, and not allowed to correct Mr Caruso's errors and false accusations.

c. Mr Caruso has NEVER READ the book, and so has no idea what he is talking about.

d. His opening gambit is that I suggest that 4 kings are the same. I do no such thing of course. In fact, I never mention Abgar VI or Abgar VIII once in my books. Not once (except as an entry in the in the king-list). But Mr Caruso would not know that, because he has never read the book. But he still makes the false accusation.

e. He said that I do not know what a Greek final sigma is. But if he had read the book he would know that I had the correct sigma 46 times, and got it wrong once. And that was due to the impossible situation of Kindle not handling foreign fonts.

f. He says there is no relationship between Yeshua and Izas, as if this proves me wrong. But this is exactly what I say in the book, because the comparison is 'A over T' - the original name was Persian, not Aramaic. But Mr Caruso would not know that, because he has never read the book.

g. He said my translation of 'Adiabene' is impossible. But I don't say it is a translation, I say it was Josephus having a bit of fun at our expense (at Mr Caruso's expense, more like.)

h. He says that the progression from Judas to Addai is terrible. But it is not my progression, it came from the ancient scribes and from Prof Eisenman.

i. Mr Caruso says I called Verenna a fraud, which he is. Actually, I was quoting a website:
http://thomasverenna.blogspot.nl
I also contacted Mt Verenna's university, and they said they had never heard of him.

j. Mr Caruso then goes onto say that I should have used Hebrew fonts in the eBook, instead of images (somehow this invalidates my thesis). But Amazon Kindle wrote to me and said:

Quote:
We can´t guarantee that Hebrew or Greek fonts will be displayed nicely on all the Kindle devices and Apps (e.g. Kindle für iPad or iPhone), as we "officially" do not support Hebrew or Greek…..

We are sorry that we can´t provide a more satisfying answer. Currently, there is no other "workaround" than to include images instead of fonts.
Regards,

Stephanie M.
Kindle Direct Publishing
http://kdp.amazon.com

Endquote:

So there you go - another Straw Man argument shot down in flames by the very company Mr Caruso was trying to utilise.

And if you are listening Mr Caruso, you promised me cast-iron epigraphic proof that Adiabene is Arbela (because this destroys my theory). I am still waiting one year later, Mr Caruso - so where is your cast iron proof? And why did you delete all your errors from your website, and leave us with a cacophony of false accusations? Is this what modern scholarship has become?


I don't suppose we shall get an answer…


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04-11-2013, 11:07 AM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2013 11:14 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
Gee... And I was just wondering how long the latest episode of Ralph Ellis's Scholarship Conspiracy would run before the specter of Tom Verenna was raised. Dodgy

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04-11-2013, 11:27 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(04-11-2013 10:29 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 10:09 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  Try looking tekton up in a Greek dictionary - it means 'freemason'.

Right. Except for the part where it doesn't, since the word was used very broadly to mean craftsman.

So you really think a King of the Jews would be a mere artisan do you? I suppose Queen Elizabeth II was also a washer-woman.


(04-11-2013 10:29 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 10:09 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  Why do you think that Simon (St Peter) was called Peter-Cephas (the stone-stone) ?

That's... not a thing either. Nobody literally called him that. Those are just Greek and Aramaic versions of the same title.

I think you need to re-read the NT. Simon was called Peter and Cephas on numerous occasions - in fact, much more often than he was called Simon. Is the great cathedral in Rome known as St Simon's, or St Peter's?

Joh 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
1Co 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

Mt 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
Mt 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mt 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
Mt 26:33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.
Mt 26:35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.
Mt 26:37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.


(04-11-2013 10:29 AM)cjlr Wrote:  But of course you've not just used the above to mean a mason, which would be reasonable (notwithstanding that the gospels explicitly say he's a fisherman, mind).

So you believe the fisherman story?

That's called metaphor.

The reference to fishermen was because we entered the Great Month of Pisces in AD 10. Thus the disciples became 'fishers of men' and the symbol of Christianity became the ichthus fish.



(04-11-2013 10:29 AM)cjlr Wrote:  'modern' Freemasons. Who happen to be a group whose origins are in medieval guilds

Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Thumbsup

Nice one. So kings all over Europe just wanted to be operative masons eh? Just because they wanted to become 'one of the lads' !! Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Thumbsup


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04-11-2013, 12:00 PM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(04-11-2013 11:27 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 10:29 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Right. Except for the part where it doesn't, since the word was used very broadly to mean craftsman.

So you really think a King of the Jews would be a mere artisan do you? I suppose Queen Elizabeth II was also a washer-woman.

Well, no, actually, because she's a mechanic.

That's not an argument. You are simply asserting (based on nothing) that the term cannot "merely" mean, er, what it literally means. How compelling.

(04-11-2013 11:27 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  I think you need to re-read the NT. Simon was called Peter and Cephas on numerous occasions - in fact, much more often than he was called Simon. Is the great cathedral in Rome known as St Simon's, or St Peter's?
....

Which isn't actually at all relevent...

Your 'logic' amounts to (and I use the world 'logic' here quite wrongly) "Peter means rock therefore he was a Freemason".

Right then. How compelling.

(04-11-2013 11:27 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  So you believe the fisherman story?

That's called metaphor.

Oh, right, I'd forgotten. You and you alone are capable of reading the texts and divining the truths. I guess the Holy Spirit is holding your hand, to let you know where everyone else is wrong and you are so self-evidently correct?

(04-11-2013 11:27 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  The reference to fishermen was because we entered the Great Month of Pisces in AD 10. Thus the disciples became 'fishers of men' and the symbol of Christianity became the ichthus fish.

Oh, this shit again.

Remember how your dotted lines don't exist in the sky?

Ichthys just means 'fish'...

(that "fishers of men" might come to mind as a metaphor for describing describing the acts of people who used to be fishers of fish is clearly to be discarded as ridiculous)

(04-11-2013 11:27 AM)ralphellis Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 10:29 AM)cjlr Wrote:  'modern' Freemasons. Who happen to be a group whose origins are in medieval guilds

Nice one. So kings all over Europe just wanted to be operative masons eh? Just because they wanted to become 'one of the lads' !!

Guy, that's not even a coherent response. But why start now?

The claim being:
the modern organisation (Freemasons) arises from medieval guilds of masons.
Your response:
why would European kings want to be masons?

Now, to make any sense whatsoever, you'd then have to show that European kings did want to be members.

And of course that a formal organisation existed to be a member of, something which cannot be traced back farther than the 17th century...

Even if that were in any way both true and relevant it still has nothing to do with 1st century Judea. So there's that.

Nonsensical horseshit of the finest quality, sirrah. At no point approaching coherence. At no point approaching compelling. But you clearly don't let that stop you.

I suppose it's also those damn Freemasons keeping your self-evident brilliance from being accepted by mainstream academia?

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04-11-2013, 03:05 PM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(03-11-2013 10:47 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(24-10-2013 02:10 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  If it's illogical to dispute Caesar's existence, it's likewise illogical to dispute the historical Jesus. Why then, do you do so?


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

We have contemporary attestation of Caesar; both from his allies, his enemies, and neutral observers. We have Caesar's own words, 'The Civil Wars', a classic of Latin literature. We have statues and coinage that not only corroborate his image, but date to the same time as his rule. Not only that, but if he didn't exist, history would be different. If Caesar had not crossed the Rubicon with his army and ended the Civil War, he would have never been Emperor of Rome.


Do we have anything close to this for Jesus? Not even fucking close. Nope. The earliest writing are Paul's letters, and they are entirely compatible with a spiritual celestial Jesus that never actually existed here on Earth. All that was required for Christianity to flourish was the idea, the belief, in Jesus.

Jesus didn't actually have to exist as is claimed in order to explain anything.


Try again PJ, your shit still smells.

You are wrong. The gospels claim that Jesus had massive crowds following Him and likewise for John, who changed rivers to get more space for the number of baptisms he was doing.

Any contemporaneous Jew could have debunked these claims and said "What Y'shua? Which Yochanan followed by thousands of adherents?" etc. and instead we have huge numbers of Jews and proselytes following Jesus.
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04-11-2013, 03:08 PM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(03-11-2013 11:34 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  There seems to be no other accounts of a historic jesus outside the church, perhaps Jesus was nothing more than the personification of the christian mythologies, something to aspire to, to emulate. Clearly to do that would be blasphemy to try to take his teachings at heart would be blasphemy according to the current dogma, you can't take the qualities of a god. Don't you see? You are believing in your own metaphors, literal interpretations will only bring strife in your life. Look at the world of today, why must there be so much hatred between religions? Everyone thinks they are the one true religion all the others are damnations. All the people outside of religion our demonised. This is no way to live life.

Of course there are historic accounts outside the gospels. The Talmud warns Jews that the worst thing they can possibly do is trust Jesus. The same Tamud states that:

*Jesus died at 33 1/2 on Passover on a cross

*Did miracles

*Mary was his mother, Joseph wasn't His father

Of course, your original argument is "only people who loved Jesus wrote four ancient accounts about Him, before eight other authors who loved Him and followed Him wrote 23 other NT documents about Him" which is not a sound argument on its face. Can you cite an ancient person other than Jesus who had 12 authors writing accounts about Him?
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04-11-2013, 03:08 PM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(04-11-2013 03:05 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 10:47 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

We have contemporary attestation of Caesar; both from his allies, his enemies, and neutral observers. We have Caesar's own words, 'The Civil Wars', a classic of Latin literature. We have statues and coinage that not only corroborate his image, but date to the same time as his rule. Not only that, but if he didn't exist, history would be different. If Caesar had not crossed the Rubicon with his army and ended the Civil War, he would have never been Emperor of Rome.


Do we have anything close to this for Jesus? Not even fucking close. Nope. The earliest writing are Paul's letters, and they are entirely compatible with a spiritual celestial Jesus that never actually existed here on Earth. All that was required for Christianity to flourish was the idea, the belief, in Jesus.

Jesus didn't actually have to exist as is claimed in order to explain anything.


Try again PJ, your shit still smells.

You are wrong. The gospels claim that Jesus had massive crowds following Him and likewise for John, who changed rivers to get more space for the number of baptisms he was doing.

Any contemporaneous Jew could have debunked these claims and said "What Y'shua? Which Yochanan followed by thousands of adherents?" etc. and instead we have huge numbers of Jews and proselytes following Jesus.

They did. Thats why they went to the gentiles over in greece and rome and anatolia.
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04-11-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
and eventually the rest of europe.
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04-11-2013, 03:11 PM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
and eventually the rest of Europe, thought that wasnt nearly as peaceful. 0_0
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