Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
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09-10-2013, 08:23 AM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2013 09:26 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(09-10-2013 07:40 AM)morondog Wrote:  
Quote:How could this go unnoticed in the most scrutinised books of all time? "Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognized the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.'"

Ralph Ellis clone. Dreams his own interpretations for ancient texts.

Dodgy Fuck these bush-league pseudo-scientists, they give real science a bad name.

I was thinking somewhat the same thing. If I dismiss the "bible code" peeps, as crazy, how can I honestly think this one is not. He does not claim to be a "scientist".
Dr. Robert Eisenman (a real archaeologict, and scholar with credentials), thinks enough of him to co-author a book on the Dead Sea Scrolls (with him). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Eisenman , even though Atwill doesn't seem to have any formal academic credentials in Biblical Studies, or the Ancient Near East.

Philo of Alexandria wrote about 20 - 40 BCE. He is thought by some to have actually been on site, in Jerusalem, during the years Jebus would have had to have been alive. He says nothing about the Jebus Christians believe in. He DOES write about (before Paul), another Jesus. Before/by the time that Jebus was supposed to have been around there were Jews who ALREADY believed in a "celestial being" named "Jesus", who :
1. was the said to be "the first born of God",
2. was made in the "image of god",
3. God's agent of creation".
4. was said to be "the celestial high priest".
So where did Paul, (who said he got his gospel "from no man", but by revelation ALONE) get his Jebus ?
Maybe this one ?
In that context, with all the syncretic elements Atwill points out to the Flavian narrative, it seems it deserves a look.

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09-10-2013, 08:40 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
Yeah! I can make a clean break for it now!...

Yeah, no. That just won't ever. Fucking. Happen.

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09-10-2013, 08:51 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
Atwill huh?? "Street cred"?? I don't think so. Is he respected as the historian he claims to be by his peers?
Some disturbing thoughts about this "evidence"....
1. Since when did Roman aristocrats (whatever that means) and the ruling class write riddles that were meant to be solved by "future generations".
2. Doesn't Atwill state that the Roman aristocrats wrote this "propoganda" to solve CURRENT problems of unrest in the militant Jewish population?
3. Seems that Atwill has "interpreted" the writings of Josephus in a way that no other current historian has done; never mind that at least some of the writings of Josephus are thought to be additions or complete fabrications by other anonymous authors of the time (see "Testimonium Flaviianum")

Just my thoughts....but until or unless some documentation is found that can be verified and proven and agreed upon by valid current historians regarding the ficticious Jesus; I'll withhold my judgement.

Also....I don't believe the Jesus of christianity ever existed.....just so you know my personal bias.

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09-10-2013, 08:58 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(09-10-2013 07:40 AM)morondog Wrote:  
Quote:How could this go unnoticed in the most scrutinised books of all time? "Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.'"

Ralph Ellis clone. Dreams his own interpretations for ancient texts.

Dodgy Fuck these bush-league pseudo-scientists, they give real science a bad name.

Even more pathetic; they give shitty novelists another round of publicity. That Da Vinci Code drivel will find another wave of popularity because of these blundered ruminations ... all because they are connected to a conglomerate historical character.

I want to see the archeology here. That's all. I don't want this Atwill fuck's interpretation or theory. Atwill needs to eat a dick. Drinking Beverage

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09-10-2013, 09:39 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
I find it interesting that none of the theist trolls have come into this thread to say smugly that we secretly do believe in God since we are doubting this story.
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09-10-2013, 09:43 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(09-10-2013 09:39 AM)natachan Wrote:  I find it interesting that none of the theist trolls have come into this thread to say smugly that we secretly do believe in God since we are doubting this story.

Yeah, where's I&I when you don't need him? Consider

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-10-2013, 10:15 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(08-10-2013 09:38 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(08-10-2013 09:23 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  I'm skeptical about several aspects of it.

But, it does seem to have at least some credibility. Its worth thinking about at least. I think Jesus did exist... for the reasons Christopher Hitchens gave. Where the myths came from, and the messianic status... that's not so clear.

Come to think of it, why would Jews in Israel want to turn him into a messiah, when he so clearly didn't fit the prophesy?
Not all the jews believed that jesus was the messiah but a lot of them did which caused a split in the religion this creating christianity. Today the jews are still waiting for their messiah. Oh..and what videos did you see about hitchens comments? I don't doubt you I just love watching themTongue

This is the one... he gets to it by about 2 minutes 50.




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09-10-2013, 11:00 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
(08-10-2013 08:27 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  New discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats
and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ.

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm

I think we all knew this anyway and it appears, now we have a little evidence.

I also posted this on my fb and I have to admit to some glee as I mentally pop a few balloons that some religious people in my family have.

That sounds like it could be very interesting.

(I'd type a longer reply, but I gotta find something to wipe off the drool... Wink )

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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09-10-2013, 11:07 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
damn, as much as i want to believe this, his presentation is setting off my bullshit detector.
Butt jebus had to be invented or doctored by someone I guess.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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09-10-2013, 11:14 AM
RE: Story of Jesus Christ now proven to be a fabrication
He might be a compilation of a bunch of different ppl. I find that more likely than him being a complete fabrication or propaganda tool.
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