Strange legal case
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28-03-2017, 11:17 AM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2017 08:29 PM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
Strange legal case
This just happened out in Seth Andrews' home town.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/27/us/oklahom...index.html

Three teenagers dressed in black with masks, knives and brass knuckles broke into a suburban home in Broken Arrow, OK and met up with a homeowner wielding an AR-15. The guy with the rifle won and the teens paid that ultimate price for their attempted home invasion.

Well, that's typical justice for that region of the country. Break into someone's house and you're likely to get shot for it.

But the strange thing was about the fourth teen, presumed to be the getaway driver:

"Three teenagers dressed in black and wearing masks and gloves were killed by a resident when they broke into a home, Oklahoma authorities said Monday.

A fourth suspect, the alleged getaway driver, now faces first-degree murder counts in their deaths, authorities said."

So your three buddies get shot by the homeowner in self defense while you wait in the getaway car yet you get charged with murder for their deaths? I've heard of felony murder but never quite seen it applied like this! What gives?

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28-03-2017, 11:29 AM
RE: Strange legal case
(28-03-2017 11:17 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  I've heard of felony murder but never quite seen it applied like this! What gives?

A shitty justice system.
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28-03-2017, 11:31 AM
RE: Strange legal case
That seems like some fucked up logic for the law. Ohmy

Though, she did presumably decide to drive the others there while they themselves were armed. It could have easily been the other way, with an unsuspecting homeowner being killed in the process of the robbery. So I assume that's the justification for charging her so heavily.
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28-03-2017, 12:35 PM
RE: Strange legal case
(28-03-2017 11:17 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  So your three buddies get shot by the homeowner in self defense while you wait in the getaway car yet you get charged with murder for their deaths? I've heard of felony murder but never quite seen it applied like this! What gives?

As I understand it, you are responsible for all the consequences that result from a criminal act, direct or indirect. If the driver was a wiling participant in the burglary then the deaths of the others are part of the consequences.

Not saying I agree with it but I do understand the reasoning behind it.

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28-03-2017, 01:07 PM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2017 02:16 PM by Aliza.)
RE: Strange legal case
(28-03-2017 11:17 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  This just happened out in Seth Andrews' home town.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/27/us/oklahom...index.html

Three teenagers dressed in black with masks, knives and brass knuckles met up with a homeowner wielding an AR-15 and paid that ultimate price for their attempted home invasion.

Well, that's typical justice for that region of the country. Break into someone's house and you're likely to get shot for it.

But the strange thing was about the fourth teen, presumed to be the getaway driver:

"Three teenagers dressed in black and wearing masks and gloves were killed by a resident when they broke into a home, Oklahoma authorities said Monday.

A fourth suspect, the alleged getaway driver, now faces first-degree murder counts in their deaths, authorities said."

So your three buddies get shot by the homeowner in self defense while you wait in the getaway car yet you get charged with murder for their deaths? I've heard of felony murder but never quite seen it applied like this! What gives?

That's not strange at all.

During the commission of a felony, the perpetrators are responsible for the outcome of events. Plain and simple. The getaway drive sounds like he or she should indeed be charged with the murders of the three robbers.

Don't want to be convicted of felony murder? Then don't commit a felony because you can't guarantee that no one will be killed during the commission of your felony.

Edit: I just got home and read the full article. The get-away driver sounds guilty of everything. She knew full and well that burglary was a felony and by committing a felony, she was taking responsibility for everything else. While she might not have fully understood her culpability, ignorance of the law has never been an excuse. It sucks, but that's the law. If convicted, she'll likely spend the rest of her life in prison. She threw her life away with one stupid action.
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28-03-2017, 03:28 PM
RE: Strange legal case
It's a matter of complicity. When you're the getaway driver for a felony, you're as guilty as those that commit the felony.

And, if somebody dies as the result of your felonious actions - you're responsible for those deaths.

Fuck off, if you don't like the homeowners choice of weaponry - which in this case performed superbly.

Moral of the story - if you "job" is performing B+Es, you might want to hit those houses with the "Join the Brady Campaign" stickers on the back of the Volvo wagon parked in the driveway - and not the house with the pickup truck in the driveway with NRA bumper stickers...

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28-03-2017, 03:52 PM
RE: Strange legal case
(28-03-2017 01:07 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 11:17 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  This just happened out in Seth Andrews' home town.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/27/us/oklahom...index.html

Three teenagers dressed in black with masks, knives and brass knuckles met up with a homeowner wielding an AR-15 and paid that ultimate price for their attempted home invasion.

Well, that's typical justice for that region of the country. Break into someone's house and you're likely to get shot for it.

But the strange thing was about the fourth teen, presumed to be the getaway driver:

"Three teenagers dressed in black and wearing masks and gloves were killed by a resident when they broke into a home, Oklahoma authorities said Monday.

A fourth suspect, the alleged getaway driver, now faces first-degree murder counts in their deaths, authorities said."

So your three buddies get shot by the homeowner in self defense while you wait in the getaway car yet you get charged with murder for their deaths? I've heard of felony murder but never quite seen it applied like this! What gives?

That's not strange at all.

During the commission of a felony, the perpetrators are responsible for the outcome of events. Plain and simple. The getaway drive sounds like he or she should indeed be charged with the murders of the three robbers.

Don't want to be convicted of felony murder? Then don't commit a felony because you can't guarantee that no one will be killed during the commission of your felony.

Edit: I just got home and read the full article. The get-away driver sounds guilty of everything. She knew full and well that burglary was a felony and by committing a felony, she was taking responsibility for everything else. While she might not have fully understood her culpability, ignorance of the law has never been an excuse. It sucks, but that's the law. If convicted, she'll likely spend the rest of her life in prison. She threw her life away with one stupid action.

Here's the problem; felony murder usually applies if you or another accomplice cause the death of another during the commission of a felony. Sacco & Vanzetti, John Evans & Wayne Ritter are a couple of examples where the felony murder rule applied. But in this case, the deaths really can't be attributed to the perpetrators as it was a self defense shooting by another party not related to those involved with criminal activity. It really seems like a stretch in this case.

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28-03-2017, 05:11 PM
RE: Strange legal case
Consider it as follows: the homeowner and one of the invaders kill each other, the other three perpetrators survive and are caught. Would there be any qualms charging the three surviving perpetrators with both murders? Both were outcomes caused by committing a felony; the particular means of each death are irrelevant.

This case is identical to the above except the homeowner wasn't killed, and three instead of one perpetrator were. But that difference does not affect the essence of the case.
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28-03-2017, 05:26 PM
RE: Strange legal case
(28-03-2017 03:52 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 01:07 PM)Aliza Wrote:  That's not strange at all.

During the commission of a felony, the perpetrators are responsible for the outcome of events. Plain and simple. The getaway drive sounds like he or she should indeed be charged with the murders of the three robbers.

Don't want to be convicted of felony murder? Then don't commit a felony because you can't guarantee that no one will be killed during the commission of your felony.

Edit: I just got home and read the full article. The get-away driver sounds guilty of everything. She knew full and well that burglary was a felony and by committing a felony, she was taking responsibility for everything else. While she might not have fully understood her culpability, ignorance of the law has never been an excuse. It sucks, but that's the law. If convicted, she'll likely spend the rest of her life in prison. She threw her life away with one stupid action.

Here's the problem; felony murder usually applies if you or another accomplice cause the death of another during the commission of a felony. Sacco & Vanzetti, John Evans & Wayne Ritter are a couple of examples where the felony murder rule applied. But in this case, the deaths really can't be attributed to the perpetrators as it was a self defense shooting by another party not related to those involved with criminal activity. It really seems like a stretch in this case.

I was actually just looking this stuff up over the weekend for a paper that I'm writing in one of my classes. I'm pretty sure that if someone ends up dead during the commission of a felony (possibly even if it's an accident), then the perpetrators -all perpetrators- are going down for felony murder.

Shai might be able to help us with this one. I'll go ahead and illuminate the worm signal.

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28-03-2017, 05:31 PM
RE: Strange legal case
Not a lawyer, though from an academic standpoint strange is a good word for this. I agree with Carlo that it seems like it could be a stretch to charge the driver with the felony murder charge for the actions of homeowner; though will be interested to see how it turns out. Because, as others have pointed out earlier, getaway drivers do get held accountable for the actions of those that they help drive to commit the crimes. I met one such person in a prison once, and when he was done in Pennsylvania, he was going to have to serve a sentence in Maryland, because of driving while a friend robbed gas stations in both states at gunpoint.

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