Strangest held belief other than religion.
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18-03-2013, 08:00 AM
RE: Strangest held belief other than religion.
(18-03-2013 07:37 AM)Dom Wrote:  new religion! Big Grin
Actually, there is such a religion already - it's called Free Market Big Grin See the Leonard Read essay on the Pencil.
I see that even as a kid you had a great deal of true economist's awareness, seeing that which is hidden, nearing Frederic Bastiat, Milton Friedman and such. Good job! Thumbsup
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18-03-2013, 08:19 AM
RE: Strangest held belief other than religion.
(18-03-2013 07:37 AM)Dom Wrote:  ...
I was fascinated with this. The chair and the entire world and all objects around me became some mystical, live thing, containing a part of the spirit of so many lives (plants, animals and people).
...
So there, the basis for a new religion! Big Grin

And, indeed, the basis for most existing religions.

You should write a book. I hear that books like these sell very well.

Bowing

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18-03-2013, 08:22 AM
RE: Strangest held belief other than religion.
(18-03-2013 07:46 AM)Luminon Wrote:  ...
I learned the hard way to google up things before I express an opinion.
It takes a dose of masochism to always search for a contrary info first, but it saves the ridicule later.
...

I bow to that. Bravo.

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18-03-2013, 09:02 AM
RE: Strangest held belief other than religion.
(18-03-2013 07:46 AM)Luminon Wrote:  I had a lot of strange beliefs, but that was before I got a reliable internet connection. Then I learned the hard way to google up things before I express an opinion. It takes a dose of masochism to always search for a contrary info first, but it saves the ridicule later.

For example, I believed that gay couples should not adopt children. Then people linked me studies proving that adopted children of gay couples are not worse off, they might be somewhat better, because gays have to work harder to be parents.
I believed there's something quite wrong about the 9/11 attacks. I still don't understand the mechanics of the main two buildings fall, seems completely counter-intuitive to me. But the other buildings and Pentagon, I learned there was nothing strange, it completely jibes with the official version. Now I'd say in any case the cause of attack remains the same regardless of who or how it was done, the American economic and military hegemony (dependent on oil) after the collapse of Soviet Union as the sole competitor, and the injustice around the world.

(18-03-2013 12:26 AM)Foxcanine1 Wrote:  I'll throw mine as first. I was partly involved in the The Zeitgeist Movement. I used to think that they had the only solution to resolving humanities problems. I wasn't a truther but I was convinced that the idea of a resource based economy, RBE, was the only way for humanity to move forward. What made me lose interest was first was the fact that Peter Joseph wasn't willing to get rid of his wrong claims made in his movies, even though this wasn't very scientific of him, and the fact that the movement seemed to really actually go anywhere. Almost all of it was internet based with the only exception one experiment that I know of. Something to do with automated agriculture production. I don't know how that's going but seeing as how I haven't heard of any business taking it up I assume it's still not economically viable. They've been criticized for the lack of evidence they provide and many inside maintain that a large conspiracy among government and business is bent on keeping us from progressing.
RBE has nothing to do with TZM. TZM is more of a self-appointed activist group that piggybacked RBE with lots of other messages, some of them correct (the banking system outline), some highly inaccurate or just outright fake. The usual stuff when you let people and opinions rule, something that Jacque Fresco strongly advocates against. Fresco is a professional engineer and he designs efficient structures, devices and factories out of already existing materials and technologies. RBE is the only way forward, because it's basically the way we do things in our families, only on greater and more sophisticated scale. In family we don't proliferate cheap stuff just to make money of our relatives. We try to buy or make the most durable things that will last long. We manage the common resources and we take care of each member of family. RBE is just a way of doing this in a much, much more effective way, on global scale, with machines, computers, technology... Running a family is NOT a rocket science, it can be rationalized with technology and without commercial bullshit.

Fresco just wants to put the technology into practice all at once, because the way market does things, it releases a hundred versions of the diluted technology that slightly improves things, but wastes resources and time and the pure technology then becomes a threat to the market. If something brings in the money, nobody wants to change it or solve the problem away. He wants to do the change through public opinion, to get funds, make a good film to show the public how is it to live in RBE and use this public opinion to pressure governments to sponsor and build a prototype city. This city would prove that the concept works and can be applied anywhere in the world. Of course, if it doesn't work, then we either fix it or don't use it. Fresco wants to give us a tangible proof before we do anything. Seems like worth trying to me.
I was trying to be brief at the fact that my computer was freezing on me every ten minutes so I couldn't go into details. I agree with you that the RBE is not relegated to the TZM or even TVP but is a philosophical idea that can stand ( or fall) whether or not those others are around.

That said, It may be possible for RBE to work in the future when we have a better technological access to things like automation. Automation on a massive scale mind you since it would take automated facilities in every area of labor and service work to accomplish this.

Jacque Fresco has said that he thinks it's possible to implement his system right now. Actually I think he said that a couple of decades ago. Something that I think is an over exaggeration of the state of our technology. We're getting there though.

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18-03-2013, 09:14 AM
RE: Strangest held belief other than religion.
(18-03-2013 07:46 AM)Luminon Wrote:  I had a lot of strange beliefs...

What's this had stuff? Big Grin

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18-03-2013, 03:20 PM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2013 03:30 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Strangest held belief other than religion.
(18-03-2013 09:02 AM)Foxcanine1 Wrote:  That said, It may be possible for RBE to work in the future when we have a better technological access to things like automation. Automation on a massive scale mind you since it would take automated facilities in every area of labor and service work to accomplish this.

Jacque Fresco has said that he thinks it's possible to implement his system right now. Actually I think he said that a couple of decades ago. Something that I think is an over exaggeration of the state of our technology. We're getting there though.
Our idea of technology is distorted by the market from where we stand, the technology is actually much ahead. However, the way of the market is to patent the things and release many diluted versions of the technology, small incremental changes, broad lines of low-end and high-end products for raking money. Many find it cheaper to employ Chinese workers than to invest into automation and stay behind in short term competition. Plus when the technology exists but there is no rich market for it, it doesn't get available. This is how the money distort our priorities and why we don't have what Fresco says. I actually think Fresco always designed his models according to already existing technologies, at least since the 80's. The WW2 was actually a great boom for technology, because inventors mostly didn't bother with this market crap, thanks to government funding.

He was a professional engineer for many years and designed countless inventions for all kinds of areas, from surgery to the military and aeronautics. If anyone had to work with the real state of technology, it was him. I'd say that RBE uses the existing technologies in a form of new inventions (as they are not used today), yet in a theoretically possible way, that is what creates the impression they're futuristic. But they're all based on a sound design.

(18-03-2013 09:14 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(18-03-2013 07:46 AM)Luminon Wrote:  I had a lot of strange beliefs...
What's this had stuff? Big Grin
I don't think beliefs is the right word for what I have. I am a gardener in a park of ideas. Sometimes experience makes me plant in something new, sometimes I root out something, but most of the time I just let things grow on me. I don't have the tools yet to reap the fruits, I only watch out for weeds and poisons. I spend a lot of time in this park and it inspires my other activities.
So when you talk to me, you don't talk to someone who is decidedly for or against a particular thing, like a believer or a skeptic. You talk to someone, who believes most things are true, good and useful if they stay in their place, time and context. This finding the right place for things so that they don't clash (or do, in an interesting way) is the art of gardening.
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18-03-2013, 03:47 PM
RE: Strangest held belief other than religion.
If there ever was a group of superstitious people its basebal players. I played baseball in high school and you couldn't step on a line, or you had to swing the bat in warmup exactly X many times, or your socks had to be pulled up to the exact same place and on and on.

Nowdays I step on any and all lines, pick the number 13 whenever its available, my phone number ends with 666 and simply dare the heavens to fuck with me. So far so good Cool

"Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."- Mark Twain in Eruption
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18-03-2013, 04:50 PM
RE: Strangest held belief other than religion.
When I was in early grade school, there was a period of time when everything I did had to have a balance or be even. If I spun around clockwise, I would then have to "unwind" by turning the other way the same number of times. If I bumped my elbow on the wall, I would have to do it a second time. If I crossed the street, I would have to return before any vehicles crossed my invisible tether. (We lived in the country with minimal traffic.) One time, while across the street, a car was coming over the hill and I momentarily thought that if I faced away from the street when it passed by, it would be alright. I decided that it wouldn't be acceptable in keeping things "right," I ran back just in time, and nearly became a hood ornament.

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18-03-2013, 05:02 PM
RE: Strangest held belief other than religion.
(18-03-2013 03:20 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(18-03-2013 09:02 AM)Foxcanine1 Wrote:  That said, It may be possible for RBE to work in the future when we have a better technological access to things like automation. Automation on a massive scale mind you since it would take automated facilities in every area of labor and service work to accomplish this.

Jacque Fresco has said that he thinks it's possible to implement his system right now. Actually I think he said that a couple of decades ago. Something that I think is an over exaggeration of the state of our technology. We're getting there though.
Our idea of technology is distorted by the market from where we stand, the technology is actually much ahead. However, the way of the market is to patent the things and release many diluted versions of the technology, small incremental changes, broad lines of low-end and high-end products for raking money. Many find it cheaper to employ Chinese workers than to invest into automation and stay behind in short term competition. Plus when the technology exists but there is no rich market for it, it doesn't get available. This is how the money distort our priorities and why we don't have what Fresco says. I actually think Fresco always designed his models according to already existing technologies, at least since the 80's. The WW2 was actually a great boom for technology, because inventors mostly didn't bother with this market crap, thanks to government funding.

He was a professional engineer for many years and designed countless inventions for all kinds of areas, from surgery to the military and aeronautics. If anyone had to work with the real state of technology, it was him. I'd say that RBE uses the existing technologies in a form of new inventions (as they are not used today), yet in a theoretically possible way, that is what creates the impression they're futuristic. But they're all based on a sound design.

(18-03-2013 09:14 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  What's this had stuff? Big Grin
I don't think beliefs is the right word for what I have. I am a gardener in a park of ideas. Sometimes experience makes me plant in something new, sometimes I root out something, but most of the time I just let things grow on me. I don't have the tools yet to reap the fruits, I only watch out for weeds and poisons. I spend a lot of time in this park and it inspires my other activities.
So when you talk to me, you don't talk to someone who is decidedly for or against a particular thing, like a believer or a skeptic. You talk to someone, who believes most things are true, good and useful if they stay in their place, time and context. This finding the right place for things so that they don't clash (or do, in an interesting way) is the art of gardening.
This is a subject that I want to go into but not on this thread since the point was just to talk about whatever ideas that you considered strange or wrong. I'd be happy to talk about this somewhere else. I might make another thread or if you want you can and we can talk about the future of humanity there. Ok. Thumbsup

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18-03-2013, 05:07 PM
RE: Strangest held belief other than religion.
(18-03-2013 03:47 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  If there ever was a group of superstitious people its basebal players. I played baseball in high school and you couldn't step on a line, or you had to swing the bat in warmup exactly X many times, or your socks had to be pulled up to the exact same place and on and on.

Nowdays I step on any and all lines, pick the number 13 whenever its available, my phone number ends with 666 and simply dare the heavens to fuck with me. So far so good Cool
Just out of curiosity does the act of chewing tobacco have a superstitious reason or just a picked up habit?

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