Stroking the embers of doubt.
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14-01-2013, 08:34 PM
Stroking the embers of doubt.
Share here some things which have the potential to starts flames of doubt about the existence of a god. Now I'm not talking about just the christian god, but any god. Also if you want, feel free to elaborate on how you became an atheist. Perhaps through the reflection of ourselves, we can better understand how to reason with theists. If some of you would say that theists can't be reasoned with, all I'd say is that you aren't doing the right reasoning.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and
willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then
why call him God?"

- Epicurus

This is by far my favorite quote. When I was first exposed to this quote I know not, but I do know that when I was a christian I pondered something along the lines of this and for a brief time satan became a good guy and that the hearts of men were filled with evil due to free will, and that satan was just the 'sheriff' of god. That was a very brief belief though, for soon I stopped believing in hell altogether for a 'benevolent' god could not permit a being to suffer for all eternity, no matter how great his sin. From there I sparked the thought of reincarnation, a hypothesis that I have refined so much it lays as a completely different thing which has no name to describe it, as far as my knowledge. Soon after I would decide that the existence of a god was highly improbable, and the more I learned about evolution and cosmic history the more I was able to assure myself.
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15-01-2013, 09:59 PM
RE: Stroking the embers of doubt.
Hello.

Well, I must admit that my deconversion wasn't very long ago. It started around April or May last year when I browsed the internet and found the website of creationtheory.org (it's a website that shows how flawed creationism is versus evolution). On that website, I found an article regarding the Old Testament. It was full of violence and really bad stuff that I was really appalled at how this god was a loving god. I thought that this god was evil, and as such, I should disregard the Old Testament. I now had the New Testament left (unfortunately, creationtheory.org doesn't have much on the New Testament). However, there was some material regarding how Jesus acted, but for some reason, I just let that stuff go, though I guess I was having my doubts. I can't remember clearly if I also rejected the New Testament as well back then, but I thought that a god worthy of worship was benevolent, at least. I expected such a god to have considerable power (though not necessarily omnipotent) and considerable knowledge (perhaps not necessarily omniscient). I expected such a god to at least know what he's doing.

So, regarding the problem of evil, I was forced to accept that if god exists, then he is not omnipotent. I then just went on with my life until I saw a video by DarkMatter2525 on YouTube. It's titled God's Priorities, and it showed that a benevolent god who answers prayers seems to favor some people over others. What I realized was that if Yahweh was benevolent, he'd answer the prayers of those who are suffering. If I pray for good grades while someone else prays to survive the day, I expect Yahweh to help the guy who's suffering over me. It would only be just for him to do so. I mean, helping me with my grades is quite petty of him.

And as a result, I realized that Yahweh was fictional. It wasn't exactly easy on me at the time (after being a Christian all my life at that point). I personally became pretty afraid because of the implications. There would be no afterlife (or at least, I'm not justified to believe that there is one). There is no "master plan" (which, of course, explains why our world is full of pointless suffering, but to my then-Christian mind, it felt like there was no god to make things right). It made me realize how truly lucky I was, because after the decisions and situations that I've been through in my life, I have made it through all of them WITHOUT a god who guided me.

I confessed my doubts to a friend, and he told me, reassured me even, that I can still find meaning in my life without a god.

After reading around the internet, I realized that finding such meaning in my life would be a very mature and good thing to do.

So, I realized that the Christian god is nonexistent (due to being a contradiction of injustice and love). A benevolent god wouldn't mind who he's referred as (be it Allah, Brahma, or Ahura Mazda). He'd answer prayers anyway. If he doesn't take prayers, then what kind of god is he for allowing suffering to happen and not alleviating it? Furthermore, why should he wait for those people to ask for relief? Also, if he's limited in answering prayers, why not focus on those who need them answered the most? If he can't answer any prayers at all, then what's the use of this god?

I now know that if god is benevolent, he unfortunately doesn't exist.
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16-01-2013, 05:46 PM
RE: Stroking the embers of doubt.
I'm pretty sure you meant 'Stoking the Embers of Doubt'. Sorry, it was driving me nuts.

Nothing really makes me re-consider my god. First we need to define god(s), then I will probably reject it based on the definition.

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17-01-2013, 07:30 PM
RE: Stroking the embers of doubt.
(16-01-2013 05:46 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I'm pretty sure you meant 'Stoking the Embers of Doubt'. Sorry, it was driving me nuts.

Nothing really makes me re-consider my god. First we need to define god(s), then I will probably reject it based on the definition.
No I meant what I said. I used the word, stroking, intentionally now I must read this other man's post.
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18-01-2013, 12:32 AM
RE: Stroking the embers of doubt.
(17-01-2013 07:30 PM)Nappa Wrote:  
(16-01-2013 05:46 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I'm pretty sure you meant 'Stoking the Embers of Doubt'. Sorry, it was driving me nuts.

Nothing really makes me re-consider my god. First we need to define god(s), then I will probably reject it based on the definition.
No I meant what I said. I used the word, stroking, intentionally now I must read this other man's post.

'stoking' is what you do to a fireplace with a fire pick, turning over logs and moving the embers a bit in an effort to keep the fire going by allowing it to get to the unburnt pieces of kindling.

'stroking' is what you do to your cat, it's a synonym for 'petting'.


I just want to make sure that you are, in fact, advocating the petting of hot coals... Tongue

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
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18-01-2013, 10:29 AM
RE: Stroking the embers of doubt.
Imagine that no concept of any god was ever communicated to you. There were no family members, friends, or proselytizing strangers telling you about their god. There was no bible or other written work telling of atrocities and contradictions a god's doctrine or a god's miracles. It would be just you existing in the world going about your day to day life as you do now, but with all that is god-related removed.

Now, starting from there, what reason would you have to believe in a god if the idea simply occurred to you?

Silence is only golden when it's not synonymous with a failure to speak out against injustice.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." --Gene Roddenberry
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18-01-2013, 11:16 AM
RE: Stroking the embers of doubt.
One "stokes" a fire. One "blows" on embers. I guarantee, if you "stoke" embers, you will snuff them out. Thumbsup

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
The noblest of the dogs is the hot dog. It feeds the hand that bites it.
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18-01-2013, 12:40 PM
RE: Stroking the embers of doubt.
Of course I do neither, I just throw on some more wood and a squirt of butane.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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22-01-2013, 07:41 PM
RE: Stroking the embers of doubt.
I think that when you consider that your religion is dependent upon the time and place that you were born, brings home that religion is man made.
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22-01-2013, 08:42 PM
RE: Stroking the embers of doubt.
(18-01-2013 10:29 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Imagine that no concept of any god was ever communicated to you. There were no family members, friends, or proselytizing strangers telling you about their god. There was no bible or other written work telling of atrocities and contradictions a god's doctrine or a god's miracles. It would be just you existing in the world going about your day to day life as you do now, but with all that is god-related removed.

Now, starting from there, what reason would you have to believe in a god if the idea simply occurred to you?

I often daydream about life with no religious peer pressure (sigh and harp music)...

Like others here: the lack of historical proof, the contradictions, the biblical violence, especially god having to murder his own son to forgive sins (where is the sense in that?!), there being no big plan, reading about science and evolution, there being so many one-true-faiths past and present, atrocities, the impossible mental gymnastics that believing would involve for me, the accident of birth mentioned above making me realize that had I grown up elsewhere I would have been Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu or whatever, the confirmation bias where god is credited for all things right and just but not docked points for the bad stuff, treatment of women in some religions, I could go on.

But the biggest reason is that I have no proof and cannot will myself to believe. It's that simple.
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