Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
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17-08-2014, 04:45 AM
Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
I am curious wether there are any strong atheists in here (e.g. persons who are happy to make the negative truth claim that god does not exist) whose position on the existence of God is actually facts-based.

Notes:

* I am not really interested in hearing from people who reference any external authority as a source of truth. Please refrain from posting if this is the source of your ideas.
* I am not really interested in hearing from people who operate from theories of "refuting intelligent design". Godel's incompleteness theorem proves mathematically to my satisfaction that all "intelligent design" arguments, wether for or against, are inherently meaningless, and I'm not really interested in debating that on this thread.

So - just strong atheists who reckon they have a position which is facts-based, e.g based on direct personal experience. Do we have any strong atheists in the room? :-)

Phil
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17-08-2014, 04:50 AM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
(17-08-2014 04:45 AM)phil.a Wrote:  I am curious wether there are any strong atheists in here (e.g. persons who are happy to make the negative truth claim that god does not exist) whose position on the existence of God is actually facts-based.

Notes:

* I am not really interested in hearing from people who reference any external authority as a source of truth. Please refrain from posting if this is the source of your ideas.
* I am not really interested in hearing from people who operate from theories of "refuting intelligent design". Godel's incompleteness theorem proves mathematically to my satisfaction that all "intelligent design" arguments, wether for or against, are inherently meaningless, and I'm not really interested in debating that on this thread.

So - just strong atheists who reckon they have a position which is facts-based, e.g based on direct personal experience. Do we have any strong atheists in the room? :-)

Phil

Well we do have some Gnostic atheists around.
Consider

I think HoC said he was one... But he's weak as shit.

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17-08-2014, 04:53 AM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
(17-08-2014 04:45 AM)phil.a Wrote:  I am curious wether there are any strong atheists in here (e.g. persons who are happy to make the negative truth claim that god does not exist) whose position on the existence of God is actually facts-based.

Notes:

* I am not really interested in hearing from people who reference any external authority as a source of truth. Please refrain from posting if this is the source of your ideas.
* I am not really interested in hearing from people who operate from theories of "refuting intelligent design". Godel's incompleteness theorem proves mathematically to my satisfaction that all "intelligent design" arguments, wether for or against, are inherently meaningless, and I'm not really interested in debating that on this thread.

So - just strong atheists who reckon they have a position which is facts-based, e.g based on direct personal experience. Do we have any strong atheists in the room? :-)

Phil

I think there are cases to made on a per deity or concept basis. While I'm generally an agnostic atheist in regards to deistic claims, I'm certain enough to bet my (non-existant) soul on the non-existance on the Yahweh Sabbaoth of the Bible; based on his description in said Bible and what we know about the origin and construction of his mythos.

TL;DR
god(s)/supernatural - agnostic
Yahweh - gnostic

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17-08-2014, 04:56 AM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
I am a gnostic atheist for pretty much two reasons.
1 - The concept of "god" is left up to the individual. Therefore, I've created my own definition, based on what I believe a god (perfect being) should be like (which is what everyone does, really). This would be an omnipotent and omniscient deity. For it to be worthy of worship, it must be benevolent as well.
2 - My definition is logically inconsistent with itself (omnipotence paradox, omniscience paradox, and the problem of evil) and reality (if such a being existed, reality would be much different), so not only does it not exist, but it cannot exist.

Even if, say, Zeus was proven to be real, I would not worship him as a god, because he does not meet my criteria. No self-proclaimed god will ever meet my criteria, simply because the criteria cannot be met.

The end.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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17-08-2014, 05:01 AM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
Maybe you'd like to start another thread where you demonstrate how Gödel's Theorem has anything at all to do with the existence of any gods.

I'm not interested in what Gödel himself had to say, but what you have to say.

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17-08-2014, 05:06 AM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2014 05:23 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is
For the purposes of debate I call myself a strong atheist or gnostic atheist.

I don't care about Godel's incompleteness theorem. It is irrelevant. I care about the weight of evidence.

I call on the body of scientific theories which have overwhelming evidence backing them where competing theories have a negligible chance of being true.

There is overwhelming evidence for Darwinian evolution. We have theories for this that can be applied in practice. There is very little evidence for intelligent design, all of which can be better explained by Darwinian evolution. What's more, theories of intelligent design aren't actually useful. They have little explanatory power. We can't use the theory of intelligent design to create medicines, perform search techniques or understand the world better.

We also have the apparently universal laws of Thermodynamics and astronomical observations of the scale and history of the universe. We are fast developing an understanding of abiogenesis and self organisation at all levels, from the micro to the macro level.

But this by itself does not show that God does not exist. All this means is that the gap in which a god can fit into is growing so small that if a monotheistic god did exist then it would most likely so be irrelevant to our lives that we can ignore the concept.

The final nail in the coffin is to ask what a monotheist defines as being God and show how the concept is both logically inconsistent and totally at odds with our understanding of Physics.
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17-08-2014, 05:10 AM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
(17-08-2014 04:45 AM)phil.a Wrote:  I am curious wether there are any strong atheists in here (e.g. persons who are happy to make the negative truth claim that god does not exist) whose position on the existence of God is actually facts-based.

Notes:

* I am not really interested in hearing from people who reference any external authority as a source of truth. Please refrain from posting if this is the source of your ideas.
* I am not really interested in hearing from people who operate from theories of "refuting intelligent design". Godel's incompleteness theorem proves mathematically to my satisfaction that all "intelligent design" arguments, wether for or against, are inherently meaningless, and I'm not really interested in debating that on this thread.

So - just strong atheists who reckon they have a position which is facts-based, e.g based on direct personal experience. Do we have any strong atheists in the room? :-)

Phil

"negative truth claim"

Huh?
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17-08-2014, 05:16 AM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
"u" don't have a position on god's existence which is "facts-based."

The burden of proof lies with you. Read that again.

End of discussion...till you come up with one.
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17-08-2014, 05:20 AM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
I got a fax once that said God doesn't exist...

Fax based truth claim...

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17-08-2014, 05:27 AM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
(17-08-2014 04:45 AM)phil.a Wrote:  e.g based on direct personal experience. Do we have any strong atheists in the room? :-)

As an aside, I'd like to point out that direct personal experience is not the same as fact derived from evidence.

Also, how can you have direct personal experience of something not existing?
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