Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
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19-08-2014, 01:17 PM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
(19-08-2014 01:14 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 01:09 PM)Ray Butler Wrote:  Cool. But I'd suggest it isn't a distance at all if that is the case, and I'd suggest there is only one of them.

No, it's... definitely a distance.

On what are you basing that very odd conclusion?

I'm basing it on the fact that if it is a distance you can halve it, if not it is infinite.
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19-08-2014, 01:20 PM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
(19-08-2014 01:17 PM)Ray Butler Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 01:14 PM)cjlr Wrote:  No, it's... definitely a distance.

On what are you basing that very odd conclusion?

I'm basing it on the fact that if it is a distance you can halve it, if not it is infinite.

No, that is not how the universe works. Things are quantised.

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19-08-2014, 01:26 PM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
(19-08-2014 01:20 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 01:17 PM)Ray Butler Wrote:  I'm basing it on the fact that if it is a distance you can halve it, if not it is infinite.

No, that is not how the universe works. Things are quantised.

I'm not good at math, but I can understand the idea that potential doesn't have to be anything to exist.
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19-08-2014, 01:28 PM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
(19-08-2014 01:26 PM)Ray Butler Wrote:  ... I can understand the idea that potential doesn't have to be anything to exist.

I cannot parse this.

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19-08-2014, 01:35 PM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
(19-08-2014 01:28 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 01:26 PM)Ray Butler Wrote:  ... I can understand the idea that potential doesn't have to be anything to exist.

I cannot parse this.

Are you saying the universe cannot be understood in any way but mathematically? Theoretically if the universe began at some point then the nothingness it came from was infinite, but if the universe was always here then it is infinite. We are in paradoxical situations where when the universe became something nothingness ceased to not exist, meaning it wasn't infinite to begin with but what was stopping nothingness from becoming something if nothing existed? It would mean potential can be nothingness that builds until it becomes something. Pretty simple Tongue
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19-08-2014, 01:40 PM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
(19-08-2014 01:35 PM)Ray Butler Wrote:  Are you saying the universe cannot be understood in any way but mathematically? Theoretically if the universe began at some point then the nothingness it came from was infinite, but if the universe was always here then it is infinite. We are in paradoxical situations where when the universe became something nothingness ceased to not exist, meaning it wasn't infinite to begin with but what was stopping nothingness from becoming something if nothing existed? It would mean potential can be nothingness that builds until it becomes something. Pretty simple Tongue

Nothing to do with foundations of logic, early universe and paradox is "pretty simple". It's only simple to true believers.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-08-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
(19-08-2014 01:40 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 01:35 PM)Ray Butler Wrote:  Are you saying the universe cannot be understood in any way but mathematically? Theoretically if the universe began at some point then the nothingness it came from was infinite, but if the universe was always here then it is infinite. We are in paradoxical situations where when the universe became something nothingness ceased to not exist, meaning it wasn't infinite to begin with but what was stopping nothingness from becoming something if nothing existed? It would mean potential can be nothingness that builds until it becomes something. Pretty simple Tongue

Nothing to do with foundations of logic, early universe and paradox is "pretty simple". It's only simple to true believers.

Yes, I don't find this discussion relevant to anything, I'm just trying to work through some things. People were asking me questions that I don't really know, so I asked them questions back and they gave me math, if I have to learn math to understand this then they are out of luck, I'm not interested in math. So yes, I lose by default; infinity doesn't exist.
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19-08-2014, 01:52 PM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
The universe is understandable and observable without a god assumption. God is therefore an unnecessary and meaningless concept.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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19-08-2014, 01:52 PM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
(19-08-2014 01:48 PM)Ray Butler Wrote:  People were asking me questions that I don't really know, so I asked them questions back and they gave me math, if I have to learn math to understand this then they are out of luck, I'm not interested in math.

Well... that's hardly a crime. Quite a lot of physical understanding can be had from qualitative stuff. But... if you want to resolve paradoxes like Zeno's... maths is necessarily gonna be involved.

(I've never quite bought the lines that people try to feed me about Zeno, even *after* going through quite a lot of maths. That boy was onto something. Sharp guy.)

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-08-2014, 01:53 PM
RE: Strong Atheists: do any of u have a position on god's existence which is facts-based?
Just because something is indivisible, does not mean it is infinite. The physical world will behave slightly different than an equation because the concept of a number does not have a "boundary" stopping you from doing whatever you want with it, while a physical object with an attribute described by a number may very well have a "boundary". You cannot infinitely divide a physical object (even assuming you have the means to divide it as much as possible) because at the end you will encounter the smallest form of whatever you were dividing.

I suppose you could start taking imaginary fractions of whatever the smallest unit is...but what's the point?

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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