Stunning result in the field of Medicine
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20-02-2016, 02:37 PM
RE: Stunning result in the field of Medicine
(20-02-2016 02:36 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-02-2016 02:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The placebo effect presumes the belief there is a substance involved.

Correct. It is the belief that has the effect, not the substance.

Homeopathic substances have no effects.

Agreed.

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20-02-2016, 02:39 PM
RE: Stunning result in the field of Medicine
Gasp what?! No! You mean water doesnt have memory?! Sadcryface2
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20-02-2016, 02:45 PM
RE: Stunning result in the field of Medicine
(20-02-2016 02:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-02-2016 02:25 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. It doesn't mean that. It "does" something ... which is equivalent to the placebo effect. That is a real effect. The placebo effect is real and experienced as real.

No, it doesn't do shit. The substance is utterly unrelated to the placebo effect, and no substance at all is required.


No. The placebo effect is real. The article says the effect of using homeopathy is equivalent to that ... which is due to the person's belief that it works.
It's still a real effect.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-02-2016, 02:45 PM
RE: Stunning result in the field of Medicine
(20-02-2016 02:39 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  Gasp what?! No! You mean water doesnt have memory?! Sadcryface2

It does in Flint, MI.

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20-02-2016, 02:50 PM
RE: Stunning result in the field of Medicine
(20-02-2016 02:45 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-02-2016 02:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it doesn't do shit. The substance is utterly unrelated to the placebo effect, and no substance at all is required.


No. The placebo effect is real. The article says the effect of using homeopathy is equivalent to that ... which is due to the person's belief that it works.
It's still a real effect.

You are conflating the substance with the belief. Of course the placebo effect is real, it simply does not depend on the substance.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-02-2016, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 20-02-2016 02:56 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Stunning result in the field of Medicine
(20-02-2016 02:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-02-2016 02:45 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. The placebo effect is real. The article says the effect of using homeopathy is equivalent to that ... which is due to the person's belief that it works.
It's still a real effect.

You are conflating the substance with the belief. Of course the placebo effect is real, it simply does not depend on the substance.

Without homeopathy and the belief in it, there would be no placebo effect.
There is no effect without BOTH.
The placebo effect is measurable.
It doesn't happen without both homeopathy and the belief in it, (in this instance). The "placebo effect" does not just arise from nothing.
Wiki : "Sometimes patients given a placebo treatment will have a perceived or actual improvement in a medical condition, a phenomenon commonly called the placebo effect or placebo response. The placebo effect consists of several different effects woven together, and the methods of placebo administration may be as important as the administration itself."

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20-02-2016, 02:57 PM (This post was last modified: 20-02-2016 03:03 PM by Chas.)
RE: Stunning result in the field of Medicine
(20-02-2016 02:53 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-02-2016 02:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are conflating the substance with the belief. Of course the placebo effect is real, it simply does not depend on the substance.

Without homeopathy and the belief in it, there would be no placebo effect.
There is no effect without BOTH.
The placebo effect is measurable.
It doesn't happen without both homeopathy and the belief in it, (in this instance). The "placebo effect" does not just arise from nothing.

The placebo effect arises from belief. It does not require homeopathy.
Consider sham acupuncture. It is as effective as actual acupuncture.

Homeopathic substances have no effects, none at all. It is the subjects belief that has any effect.


If someone believes that demons can cause illness and an exorcism is performed and the patient feels better, would you say the exorcism was effective?
It wasn't. It was the misguided belief that was effective.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-02-2016, 03:25 PM
RE: Stunning result in the field of Medicine
You two are in violent agreement without knowing it. Drinking Beverage

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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20-02-2016, 03:44 PM
RE: Stunning result in the field of Medicine
(20-02-2016 03:25 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You two are in violent agreement without knowing it. Drinking Beverage

I remember a dude in PHIL class losing his shit over use vs. mention.

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20-02-2016, 03:45 PM
RE: Stunning result in the field of Medicine
(20-02-2016 03:25 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You two are in violent agreement without knowing it. Drinking Beverage

I violently agree.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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