Stupid Atheist
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22-11-2013, 08:44 AM
RE: Stupid Atheist
What krisper is on about is the assumption that atheism is a positive belief, rather than the oft-stated negative belief. As a naive philosopher, I share that assumption, however, peeps don't like to be told what they believe. Big Grin

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22-11-2013, 08:50 AM
RE: Stupid Atheist
Sounds like a bit of an oxymoron to me seeing that athiests embrace the opposite of what the definition of stupid is: not able to learn or understand or reason. I don't take shots at anyone's intelligence, but you can certainly call out the "stupid" in ideas and points of view.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
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22-11-2013, 08:58 AM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 08:41 AM)sporehux Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 08:21 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  Oh don't get me wrong there are many times where it's proper to stick the stupid label on religion especially with the hypocritical views. But just to call someone stupid when the only thing you know about this is that they are a christian is just poor judgement. Just calling someone stupid without the background is what I was referring to.

I understand your point and would have agreed with you 2 months ago.
But to believe in something as monumental as an all powerful being that made the universe and gave us a book to prove it, then WHY the #^$#$ do they not read it.
That is stupid, and im sick of pulling punches for the self deluded.
The few that have read it and still believe and still worship the Lord out of hell fear
may as well be Nazi Jewdozer drivers.

How can you see hummingbirds, roses, orchids and not believe in Lord’s splendor? But, if you’re going to look at those things, you should look at other things, too. Think of an African boy with a parasitic worm boring into his eye. If you tell me God not only created but cares for us all, what about that boy? Are you telling me he says: “I understand. God deliberately created a worm that is going to blind me?” I find that intolerable.-David Attenborough.

I too have started to get away from my calm self of not saying anything when an theist say's something utterly stupid so I understand fully where you coming from and by no means do I think we should pull punches because someone is "offended" and got there feelings hurt because they realize that they are stupid. People just like to feel good about stupid things they've done which is why religion is such a big hit for most.
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22-11-2013, 09:06 AM
RE: Stupid Atheist
How about I can call someone or something "stupid" as I see fit and if others don't agree with my opinions or assessment that's just fucking hunky-dorey too. (???) Isn't that just pretty normal life anyway? LOL Why make some special distinction of atheists dealing with theists?

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22-11-2013, 09:16 AM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 08:28 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  I don't see atheism as a belief in the sense of belief in faith but a belief in the truth and facts. To say we don't believe in anything is not completely factual. We believe in the evidence we use to construct our valid and logical arguments. Personally I believe that in order for something to be there, there has to be more valid proof than he said, she said accounts and a book with too many gaps and inconsistencies.
As you probably already know, there is a significant difference between that which we call atheism and that which individuals who adopt the atheist label believe. You are correct in saying that many of us, myself included, think that the truth of a claim should be determined by evaluating both its logical consistency and the evidence which is used to support it, but you have to remember that not all atheists arrived at their position this way. My late grandfather, for example, became an atheist because he couldn't reconcile his belief in a benevolent God with his experiences as a soldier during World War II.

Simply put, there are no beliefs that are inherent to atheism; the one and only thing that all of us have in common is that we do not believe in the existence of supernatural deities.

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22-11-2013, 09:31 AM
RE: Stupid Atheist
I wonder why theist try to make words exclusive. Believe, faith, hope, spiritual, none of these have to have any religious implications. What I find more fascinating is why some let them take these words away.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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22-11-2013, 09:53 AM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2013 10:07 AM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 08:28 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 07:28 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 07:14 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  One big one is how atheist isn't a belief. Really??
Do you care to elaborate on why you disagree with that assessment?

I don't see atheism as a belief in the sense of belief in faith but a belief in the truth and facts. To say we don't believe in anything is not completely factual. We believe in the evidence we use to construct our valid and logical arguments. Personally I believe that in order for something to be there, there has to be more valid proof than he said, she said accounts and a book with too many gaps and inconsistencies.
[edit: HouseofCantor reposted this for me because there was something wrong with it the first time I attempted to post it. I've corrected it now, but that is why you see the post twice, once in mine, once in HoC]

I'd like to elaborate on that one...
Atheism is not a belief, it is a particular lack of belief, in a particular thing. There is nothing else set up around it. There are things that have a tendency to correlate around such a lack of belief, such as "a belief in the truth and facts", but they are not one and the same.

My coffee table is an atheist, because my coffee table doesn't believe in "God". Now you may say, "but how could a non-thinking, coffee table have a belief that there is no "God", or believe in truth and facts?"

And I'd say, "It can't...all it needs to do is not believe in "God" and it's managing that just fine". There is nothing else it need do.

You don't need to be thoughtful, or truth seeking to be an atheist, because there is nothing there to be. It's nothing. You don't have to do or think anything to do it. At most you need to not think one particular thing. But if you don't think anything, such as with my atheistic coffee table, then you're accomplishing just that. And believe me, you could be an atheist who doesn't give one shit about truth, reason, or logic.

Belief in truth, reason, and logic, is a different thing, one that, hopefully, one's journey toward atheism brings them to, or one that the stripping of falsehoods, irrationality, and nonsense, will at least bring the closer to by proxy. But they are different things.

I consider my self an Atheist/Realist, though I don't run around saying that. The first part is the not believing in "gods" thing, the second part is to now look around at reality and attempt to see it as it is, rather than how I'd like it to be, "truth and facts" tend to come with that. But just because one takes that first step, does not mean they necessarily take the second step. And even if they do, that was two different steps they took, not the same one. Two steps that tend to reside right by each other, but two different steps nonetheless.

...
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22-11-2013, 09:55 AM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 09:53 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 08:28 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  Do you care to elaborate on why you disagree with that assessment?

I don't see atheism as a belief in the sense of belief in faith but a belief in the truth and facts. To say we don't believe in anything is not completely factual. We believe in the evidence we use to construct our valid and logical arguments. Personally I believe that in order for something to be there, there has to be more valid proof than he said, she said accounts and a book with too many gaps and inconsistencies.

I'd like to elaborate on that one...
Atheism is not a belief, it is a particular lack of belief, in a particular thing. There is nothing else set up around it. There are things that have a tendency to correlate around such a lack of belief, such as "a belief in the truth and facts", but they are not one and the same.

My coffee table is an atheist, because my coffee table doesn't believe in "God". Now you may say, "but how could a non-thinking, coffee table have a belief that there is no "God", or believe in truth and facts?"

And I'd say, "It can't...all it needs to do is not believe in "God" and it's managing that just fine". There is nothing else it need do.

You don't need to be thoughtful, or truth seeking to be an atheist, because there is nothing there to be. It's nothing. You don't have to do or think anything to do it. At most you need to not think one particular thing. But if you don't think anything, such as with my atheistic coffee table, then you're accomplishing just that. And believe me, you could be an atheist who doesn't give one shit about truth, reason, or logic.

Belief in truth, reason, and logic, is a different thing, one that, hopefully, one's journey toward atheism brings them to, or one that the stripping of falsehoods, irrationality, and nonsense, will at least bring the closer to by proxy. But they are different things.

I consider my self an Atheist/Realist, though I don't run around saying that. The first part is the not believing in "gods" thing, the second part is to now look around at reality and attempt to see it as it is, rather than how I'd like it to be, "truth and facts" tend to come with that. But just because one takes that first step, does not mean they necessarily take the second step. And even if they do, that was two different steps they took, not the same one. Two steps that tend to reside right by each other, but two different steps nonetheless.

(^Raptor's post, edited for BBCode fragments)

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22-11-2013, 09:57 AM
RE: Stupid Atheist
Ummm...this forum is doing some weird stuff. I think demons might have gotten into the internet and are trying to thwart our comments.

[edit: Oh,...I see you did something there, HouseofCantor. The "(^Raptor's post, edited for BBCode fragments)" thing, whatever that is]

...
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22-11-2013, 09:59 AM
RE: Stupid Atheist
This has probably already been discussed at length, but I need to make a comment about the assertion that atheism isn't a faith. I think it's a dumb thing to say if the person saying it believes that atheist have a "belief" in science. I think it's ok to lump atheism together with faiths when we are classifying the population. Such as:

"Hey, is Jim a Christian? I never hear him talking about church."
"No, he's an theist."

But to address the fact that there are idiotic atheists on the internet; there are bad apples in every bunch. I personally think a "true" atheist is someone who has given religious claims a lot of thought and came to the conclusion that they are illogical. I think some people just hop on the atheist bandwagon for surface reasons, such as being interested in someone who is also an atheist. Atheism is subjected to the same idiocy that any other group is. Human nature is human nature.

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