Stupid Atheist
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22-11-2013, 12:02 PM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 09:59 AM)Cephalotus Wrote:  This has probably already been discussed at length, but I need to make a comment about the assertion that atheism isn't a faith. I think it's a dumb thing to say if the person saying it believes that atheist have a "belief" in science. I think it's ok to lump atheism together with faiths when we are classifying the population. Such as:

"Hey, is Jim a Christian? I never hear him talking about church."
"No, he's an theist."

But to address the fact that there are idiotic atheists on the internet; there are bad apples in every bunch. I personally think a "true" atheist is someone who has given religious claims a lot of thought and came to the conclusion that they are illogical. I think some people just hop on the atheist bandwagon for surface reasons, such as being interested in someone who is also an atheist. Atheism is subjected to the same idiocy that any other group is. Human nature is human nature.

Yes!! A lot of atheist I know have this mindset of just jumping on whatever bandwagon is going by and really haven't even done research and compile horrible arguments. Thus the bad apples.
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22-11-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 10:57 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 10:35 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Why not?

(1) everybody should be allowed their own style. If they are abrasive chances are they know it and do it anyway. I can be Extremely abrasive and the sweetest person you'd ever want in your life - totally depends on circumstances or the point I need to make. Calculating I am at all times.
(2) who says we all have to be PC all the damn time? Please tell me that this place isn't like that because I left a site due to its whitewashed neo-atheism and PCism....handling of everyone for their delicate sensibilities and what not.
*gag* I need to know I've joined a site where if I need to say "FUCK" I can do so.
(3) Over time eloquence has become equal to level of intelligence and I call Bullshit on that. That's a societal issue and not any evidence of personal intelligence. In fact, I've known some pretty smart cookies in my day that Curse like Sailors because they are sick and tired of reading or running into stupid day in and day out.

just sayin............
Was supposed to be my 2 cents worth - think you got 50 cents instead. my bad

By "You don't want to be insulting" I actually meant "me" or "I" in this particular case. I think they are insulted simply because we don't believe in their "god", so to some degree I don't think it really matters what we say. They will be insulted. I just try to draw out the insult long enough to try to effect some change.

For example, I have a coworker whom I have been "working on" for over a year now. She was a tough one, and at times I really, REALLY wanted to just say, "you are the dumbest person ever to walk the face of the earth!"...but I would realize how that might end the conversation, and what little progress I might be able to make.

In the course of a year, due to my "working on her", she went from believing the bible is one hundred percent literally true. Anything confusing was simply because of translation errors or human inability to understand the nature of "God", but it was all literal regardless. To now, where she doesn't believe Noah's ark happened, or that there really was a talking snake or donkey, or that they was a literal creation, with a first man and woman, or that the earth is only a few thousands of years old, but rather accepts that the earth is very old, (I don't think she yet has her mind wrapped around the numbers, but she gets it) accepts evolution, including human evolution (that was a hard one, and am still working on the details with her, because she still only lets human evolution go back so far) she now believes most of the stories in the bible are just morality stories, not intended as actual events that actually happened. She is now fighting to stop a Christian after school program in her school, and is against teaching creationism in school (though I doubt she's at the point that she would bother to do anything about it).

I consider had I told her, over those many MANY times I've wanted to, that she's a complete moron and has the intelligence of a gnat, I never would have made any of this progress with her. And she has kids that she's raising that could either go out and continue to infect the rest of the population with their mother's nonsense, or, now, go out there with a great deal of that nonsense tempered.

For me personally, that is why I take that approach. But I get being abrasive. I has it's place for sure.

Exactly what I was getting at. There is a time and a place for everything but when it comes to the big picture of giving people the ability to think for themselves and look you have to take your time with some people. It's not about who is right and who's wrong in that sense but helping someone realize what they are seeing has a lot of holes in it and maybe they should look deeper into it.
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22-11-2013, 12:09 PM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 11:57 AM)Free Wrote:  ...
Sure, we can ridicule them, but that does nothing towards leading them out of the abyss of utter darkness and into the enlightenment gained by entering the realm of reason.

I think this goes to my point. I am unedited when it comes to their ridiculous beliefs, but stop short of ridiculing the person themselves.

I also do consider, what impact can I have with this person, and is it worth it? If there is no chance in the short time I have, other than to make them upset with another atheist mocking them, then I'll leave it alone, because all I'll have accomplish is vitriol.

But if I can at least leave them with the thought, not everyone agrees with you, and I think that might have some productive benefit, then fine. Or better, if I can actually engage them.

But if they are nice to me I'm equally nice back. I do explain to them how everything they believe, and their entire self identity is a ridiculous mess of nonsense, wishful thinking, superstition, and cowardly fear, as I mock all that they believe to be sacred and true...but I say it in a nice way...

...
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22-11-2013, 12:14 PM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 07:14 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  No I'm not a theist I'm actually an atheist but this rant is based on the abundance of people who are atheist but really don't have a clue what they are talking about or argue in the form of talking down to theist. I just read on this form about how atheism isn't a religion which I agree with but someone who is an atheist as well responded back with some point and most were just complete bullshit. One big one is how atheist isn't a belief. Really?? Anyway I'm going off on a tangent. My big point is I see how a lot of Christians get this stigma of how atheist are just hateful people looking to take a good thing from them because a lot of our atheist community(if you will) argue in a hateful way. Calling all theist stupid in your argument is not going to bring down that wall in between us and get the intellectual debate started but rather going to cause a huge push back in the other direction which usually leads to a lot of yelling and such. So next time you find yourself trying to get your point across just know that people can disagree with you and you still can respect them. In doing so people are more likely to listen to what you have to say and really think about it. Of course it won't always go this way or maybe never but I'm sure that off to themselves their going to think back on your well researched and calm argument in a more respectful light.
I agree with with the gist of your post (although atheism isn't a belief Tongue ). In fact, this post was my first one here over a year ago. However, having been far more involved with my atheism in the last 15 months than I had been before that post, I would modify it somewhat today. My main modification would be along the lines of it depends on who your are talking with and what you are talking about.

Most discussions that I get involved in with theists aren't for trying to change the mind of the theists. That's usually a fruitless endeavor. When I debate, it's for the benefit of people who might be reading/listening and who might not be as set in their viewpoint. So, again, your point is valid. Good arguments will be far more effective with third party readers than a bunch of name-calling or insults. However, there are times when the names or insults are the best reply. If an Islamist extremist tries to convince me that blowing up children for "the cause" is just, I'd be wasting my time trying to debate intelligently and "fuck you piece of shit" just somehow fits much better. Neither type of response will change that person's mind and anyone reading won't be on the fence about this type of thing so there is no point trying to reason. The person needs to be told in no uncertain terms that they are dead wrong. Another example is trolls. Trying to reason with trolls simply feeds the trolling which overall just blocks third party readers from spending time more productively on better quality posts. So you might as well ignore them or, for those who can't, a "fuck off moron" is far more productive for the third party readers than lengthy posts that go nowhere while the troll just laughs.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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22-11-2013, 12:48 PM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 11:57 AM)Free Wrote:  Sure, we can ridicule them, but that does nothing towards leading them out of the abyss of utter darkness and into the enlightenment gained by entering the realm of reason.

Not sure if I agree, many Atheist are born of a sudden realisation Theistic belief is bat-shit insane. Maybe that's how we need to preach it, hell its the Truth isn't it.

How many separate instances of Cognitive dissonance can a theist maintain be before
they notice the emperor appears to be naked.

(that said I probably wont change my softcock attacks on my friends for risk of losing them)

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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22-11-2013, 01:40 PM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 12:48 PM)sporehux Wrote:  How many separate instances of Cognitive dissonance can a theist maintain be before
they notice the emperor appears to be naked.
Actually most theists don't experience the cognitive dissonance at all. "God works in mysterious ways", "God has a master plan and we don't know all the details", and "our limited human minds can't understand what God's infinite wisdom does" tend to answer everything to their satisfaction.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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22-11-2013, 03:53 PM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 01:40 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Actually most theists don't experience the cognitive dissonance at all. "God works in mysterious ways", "God has a master plan and we don't know all the details", and "our limited human minds can't understand what God's infinite wisdom does" tend to answer everything to their satisfaction.
That's exactly what cognitive dissonance is! they lie to themselves because they don't wanna feel bad.
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22-11-2013, 04:49 PM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 03:53 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 01:40 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Actually most theists don't experience the cognitive dissonance at all. "God works in mysterious ways", "God has a master plan and we don't know all the details", and "our limited human minds can't understand what God's infinite wisdom does" tend to answer everything to their satisfaction.
That's exactly what cognitive dissonance is! they lie to themselves because they don't wanna feel bad.
No, they don't feel badly at all. They aren't bothered because, in their world, "God works in mysterious ways" somehow makes sense. There is no perceived conflict between their beliefs and reality because they have this "explanation". Even if there was dissonance, the "lie" would be the reaction to it, not the dissonance itself.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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22-11-2013, 04:53 PM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 10:49 AM)Chas Wrote:  Atheism is the lack of a belief, it is not a belief. Jim is not a car owner.



A True Atheist™ does not have to have given religion much thought at all, only enough to see the lack of evidence.

First one: That's what I just said.

Second one: For some reason, I always thought of apatheism when I heard the phrase "not given religion much though." I guess I should update my personal definitions. Idk, wouldn't someone have had to put a little thought into it to decide there was a lack of evidence? Or maybe just be raised by atheist parents and automatically think virgin births sound absurd.

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22-11-2013, 10:47 PM
RE: Stupid Atheist
(22-11-2013 10:40 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Fucking Bitch, I'm totally hot for you now. Drooling

She's MINE, you can't have her. Heh.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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