Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
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07-07-2017, 05:40 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
What part of the brain is "symbolic"?
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07-07-2017, 05:43 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 05:40 PM)ImFred Wrote:  What part of the brain is "symbolic"?

If you would prefer a different word, I'm open to suggestions.
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07-07-2017, 05:51 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 03:49 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 03:39 PM)Dom Wrote:  I do realize that we probably think symbolic, but the symbols are arrived at by the usual, non-conscious way. It doesn't add any freedom of decision at all.

Again, I don't define free will as freedom. The only thing free will means to me is that I am making the decision. How could I ever be free of myself?
Quote:Again, I don't define free will as freedom. The only thing free will means to me is that I am making the decision. How could I ever be free of myself?
I'm trying to understand your conception of free will.

- Is it something compatible with determinism?
- Is my "decision making" a physical process?
- Does my "decision making" occur within some measurable time or it happens in a moment or time is irrelevant in this notion of "decision making"?
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07-07-2017, 05:58 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 05:43 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 05:40 PM)ImFred Wrote:  What part of the brain is "symbolic"?

If you would prefer a different word, I'm open to suggestions.

spirit dancer pixie
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07-07-2017, 06:08 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect



Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-07-2017, 06:20 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 05:26 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 03:58 PM)Dom Wrote:  Are you calling symbols what I call triggers?

So how do you apply this to someone who commits cruelties towards others?

Are they always to be held fully responsible or can they be kept from doing it again without assigning blame if they acted on proven abnormal impulses??

I should have asked you, how exactly do you look at the unconscious? Are you a Freudian perhaps?

From my way of looking at human perceptions, we live in, and perceive the world through, our symbolic constructions. So for instance, theists interpret everyday events differently than atheists, and react to them differently too. Basic sensory information is pretty much always interpreted in accordance with some general worldview. That's what I mean by symbolic processing.

You will have to explain to me what you mean by "triggers".

Someone who commits cruelties has likely been lied to or lies to himself. His culpability would depend in part on which it is. Someone could effectively steal his choice by lying to him.

Remember that I predicated this discussion on how normal human brains operate? Those brains which have been traumatized in various ways, or which are malformed, would not meet my definition of free will because people couldn't make their brains operate the way they want. The habits they try to form through conscious efforts don't stick, or are constantly being overturned by dreamlike symbolic processing intruding into their waking world.

It's not just damaged or malformed brains, it's body chemistry and instincts, too. Mother evolution is always pushing all the extremes of all the traits. Just as one example, some will have too much empathy and literally feel the pain of others, some will have none at all. Most fall someplace in the middle. This will be the case wit all human instincts, chemicals and hence moods and feelings including anger or fear etc. So each of us is different, a completely different mix of "inborn" stuff and bound to react very differently to the same stimuli.

Add in the indoctrination - and we are all indoctrinated, be it religion, attitudes towards others, self respect or self loathing, taste, fears and so on.

So you are saying that your symbolic processing overrides all that? Is it a purely intellectual thing?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-07-2017, 07:00 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 05:40 PM)ImFred Wrote:  What part of the brain is "symbolic"?

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say the cerebral cortex. Even in your innermost thoughts, a great proportion of those thoughts are conveyed in your native language which you learnt after birth and which is entirely symbolic.

It's kinda what separates humans and other great apes from most of Animalia -- the ability to think symbolically, or conceptually.

Might wanna check it out some time, Fred. It's pretty good stuff.
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07-07-2017, 07:02 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 05:58 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 05:43 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  If you would prefer a different word, I'm open to suggestions.

spirit dancer pixie

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07-07-2017, 07:21 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
Quote:the cerebral cortex

Gray MATTER. Not words or symbols.
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07-07-2017, 07:25 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 07:21 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
Quote:the cerebral cortex

Gray MATTER. Not words or symbols.

Your brain LEARNED to "assemble" multiple symbols (combinations/symbols) (as an infant/toddler). You really should pick up a book or three.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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