Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
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07-07-2017, 07:48 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 05:03 PM)ImFred Wrote:  I actually took a class in college called "symbolic interactionism"

It was almost as stupid as church. 10,000 words marching around in a clusterfuck of text that when you boiled it down all they were saying is biology isn't really biology and nature isn't nature and ghosts are real. Penis as a social construct bullshit.

I also had classes on symbolic interactionism. I think its pretty much on the cursus of all children educator. Maybe your teacher sucked, but it seem you and I have a very different understanding of what symbolic interactionism is.

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07-07-2017, 08:00 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 07:21 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
Quote:the cerebral cortex

Gray MATTER. Not words or symbols.

What does that "MATTER" do?

Why, it processes symbols, of course. Don't look now, but you're doing that this very second as you're reading this post.
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07-07-2017, 08:36 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
There's nothing intangible about it. There's nothing non-physical about it. I don't get why people are so insistent on living in the Middle Ages. You already know it's all chemical but then you want to tag an esoteric abstraction that doesn't exist to it. It's religious bullshit. It's a fancy way of saying soul and ghost. It's founded only in superstition. It's only chemical. It's not only chemical but blah blah blah. There's nothing about it that isn't physical. To suggest otherwise is absurd and dependent on a belief in the supernatural.
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07-07-2017, 09:07 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 08:36 PM)ImFred Wrote:  There's nothing intangible about it. There's nothing non-physical about it. I don't get why people are so insistent on living in the Middle Ages. You already know it's all chemical but then you want to tag an esoteric abstraction that doesn't exist to it. It's religious bullshit. It's a fancy way of saying soul and ghost. It's founded only in superstition. It's only chemical. It's not only chemical but blah blah blah. There's nothing about it that isn't physical. To suggest otherwise is absurd and dependent on a belief in the supernatural.

Nope. There's nothing religious about it. No one says it's intangible or non-physical. The memories are stored in physical sysytems/processes and constantly chemically reference each other.
When you see a three sided figure, your brain references the "symbol" / "construct" which you learned as a child to call a "triangle". You brain does similar "conversions" countless times a day. Your brain does not "see" "oh look, three sticks".

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07-07-2017, 10:01 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 07:25 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 07:21 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Gray MATTER. Not words or symbols.

Your brain LEARNED to "assemble" multiple symbols (combinations/symbols) (as an infant/toddler). You really should pick up a book or three.

I've read more than you.
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07-07-2017, 10:03 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 09:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 08:36 PM)ImFred Wrote:  There's nothing intangible about it. There's nothing non-physical about it. I don't get why people are so insistent on living in the Middle Ages. You already know it's all chemical but then you want to tag an esoteric abstraction that doesn't exist to it. It's religious bullshit. It's a fancy way of saying soul and ghost. It's founded only in superstition. It's only chemical. It's not only chemical but blah blah blah. There's nothing about it that isn't physical. To suggest otherwise is absurd and dependent on a belief in the supernatural.

Nope. There's nothing religious about it. No one says it's intangible or non-physical. The memories are stored in physical sysytems/processes and constantly chemically reference each other.
When you see a three sided figure, your brain references the "symbol" / "construct" which you learned as a child to call a "triangle". You brain does similar "conversions" countless times a day. Your brain does not "see" "oh look, three sticks".

Chemicals don't make decisions.
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07-07-2017, 10:28 PM (This post was last modified: 07-07-2017 10:39 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 10:03 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 09:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nope. There's nothing religious about it. No one says it's intangible or non-physical. The memories are stored in physical sysytems/processes and constantly chemically reference each other.
When you see a three sided figure, your brain references the "symbol" / "construct" which you learned as a child to call a "triangle". You brain does similar "conversions" countless times a day. Your brain does not "see" "oh look, three sticks".

Chemicals don't make decisions.

Comic books don't count when you're totaling up what you read, Ferd.
Your brain is nothing other than chemicals, Ferd.

And yes, chemicals transmit electricity, and that's how decisions are made.
http://www.brainfacts.org/brain-basics/c...ersations/

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07-07-2017, 10:55 PM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 10:03 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Chemicals don't make decisions.

But the very complex chemical reactions in your brain give rise to the emergent property of consciousness, which for the sake of temporal cohesion, tricks you on many levels out of necessity; like patching the holes in your field of vision (because of our upside down eyes with blood vesicles over parts of the light sensitive cones), that you are in fact 'experiencing' the past as the present (your brain compensates for time lag in your nervous system), or thinking you have free will (because seeing yourself as a unique active agent is evolutionary advantageous).

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08-07-2017, 02:46 AM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2017 03:12 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 06:20 PM)Dom Wrote:  It's not just damaged or malformed brains, it's body chemistry and instincts, too.

Add in the indoctrination - and we are all indoctrinated, be it religion, attitudes towards others, self respect or self loathing, taste, fears and so on.

So you are saying that your symbolic processing overrides all that? Is it a purely intellectual thing?

No, symbolic processing is certainly not an intellectual thing, though it can be for some. Perhaps a better phrase would be "world processing." I don't see personal identity as separate from community, so our early conditioning is not just indoctrination but a process with which we are complicit -- more of a mixed tool bag we adopt, but with some tools missing. Nor do I consider instincts "not us," though we must customize our default settings.

What I am really doing is redefining the self away from consciousness versus unconscious factors because I think that is leftover dualism. I am saying it's all us, so those are our choices, even if they are unexamined choices. The question of free will, to me, is not who is doing the choosing but rather how accurate the choices are.
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08-07-2017, 03:04 AM
RE: Suffering from the dunning-kruger effect
(07-07-2017 10:55 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 10:03 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Chemicals don't make decisions.

But the very complex chemical reactions in your brain give rise to the emergent property of consciousness, which for the sake of temporal cohesion, tricks you on many levels out of necessity; like patching the holes in your field of vision (because of our upside down eyes with blood vesicles over parts of the light sensitive cones), that you are in fact 'experiencing' the past as the present (your brain compensates for time lag in your nervous system), or thinking you have free will (because seeing yourself as a unique active agent is evolutionary advantageous).

Consciousness is an illusion like free will. Thanks that don't exist don't exist.
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