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27-11-2013, 11:44 AM
Suggestions for Discussion
Christianity teaches the tradition that Yahway was the one and only creator god. Archeology of the region shows that the Canaanites' were believers in many gods. What I seem to be finding is that Yahway was not originally seen as the supreme god of the region. This developed later.

Remember all the mass murders of nonbelievers in the Old Testament. That is one way to get rid of priests of competitive belief systems.

Still I was shocked to find out that Yahway as always the one supreme god and maker of all wasn't the original belief system.

I started with Wikipedia looking up Canaanite gods and with dig sites such as Ugarit.

Its fascinating to know that the Yahway group went from being the priest of one of many gods to the story that their god was always the only god.

In Wikipedia look CAREFULLY at the footnotes. Another bit that shocked me were the references to Vatican Press. There were things known about this issue and published by the Vatican press in the 1940s. (Meanwhile think of how many people died since then in the name of religion in places like the middle east and Ireland because this information was only held in academic circles).

What would have happened in history if at that point the story was picked up by the international press? Yahway was not the one creator god but one of MANY. Yahway priests killed and intimidated others and respun the story...repeatedly. The current version is that Yahway was and is the ONLY god and is the creator of the world.

How did I EVER get into looking at this stuff? IF....it is a lie...that yahway was the ONE true god, that lie would have had to have been created somewhere....for some reason. When was the lie created? Why was it created? DO we have the lie in its original form or did it evolve? Just how did the Yahway lie begin?

Is it possible that the stories about times before the Yahway cult were so strong that its one of the reasons for the young earth story. What about the time before when the people here worshiped other gods? What time before? The world began 6000 years ago! Its one way to try to avoid much of the history before Yahway and the Yahway priests.

Hope some of the rest of you find this area of questioning as interesting and illuminating.

Re Wikipedia....some of you scholar purists may frown on Wikipedia as a primary source. Im suggesting it as a way to begin looking at the question....and that the information is widely available to ALL for FREE. After that, feel free to purchase other books on Canaanite gods.


Other possible topics come immediate to mind. Are seashells on mountain tops....caused by a global flood (of Noah and the Ark fame) or by plate tectonics pushing up mountains from ancient sea floors...and why the all knowing deity would pick the WRONG explanation for these seashells. Some fundamentalists I have asked tell me God created the world as it IS to include with its mountains. The creation of mountains by plate tectonics is a view by nonbelievers. With that in mind I have had an interesting time asking fundamentalists what causes earthquakes. (Of note...in the southern schools where I attended, plate tectonics was as taboo as evolution.)

Any comments on casting out demons to cure the sick? My personal favorite cure technique is the Holy use of SPIT in curing blindness as mentioned in the bible book of Mark. Why aren't more Christians Christ-like and continuing that healing method?

Not just to pick on the Bible, but are there models in other holy books that are just not in keeping with current knowledge? If their books were written by stone age to iron age writers...as opposed to by a deity, would they...with their holy book(s) also get science predominately wrong?
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27-11-2013, 12:05 PM
RE: Suggestions for Discussion
The earliest evidence for the Hebrew texts dates to about 3,000-3,500 years ago. Dating of the Earth to 6,000 years old is done through tracing the names in Genesis. Much of Genesis and the myths there are lifted, word for word, from earlier Pagan mythologies of which there is written evidence dating at least 1,000 years earlier. This was done to encourage the spread of the belief and gain converts from the earlier pagan traditions, just like when Christianity took over the Saturnalia and the Christmas tree.
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27-11-2013, 12:13 PM
RE: Suggestions for Discussion
Try this book, The Evolution of God. It will have a LOT of answers to your questions, and even more that you haven't thought of yet.

...
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27-11-2013, 12:30 PM
RE: Suggestions for Discussion
(27-11-2013 11:44 AM)KatherineRogers Wrote:  Christianity teaches the tradition that Yahway was the one and only creator god. Archeology of the region shows that the Canaanites' were believers in many gods. What I seem to be finding is that Yahway was not originally seen as the supreme god of the region. This developed later.

Remember all the mass murders of nonbelievers in the Old Testament. That is one way to get rid of priests of competitive belief systems.

Still I was shocked to find out that Yahway as always the one supreme god and maker of all wasn't the original belief system.

I started with Wikipedia looking up Canaanite gods and with dig sites such as Ugarit.

Its fascinating to know that the Yahway group went from being the priest of one of many gods to the story that their god was always the only god.

In Wikipedia look CAREFULLY at the footnotes. Another bit that shocked me were the references to Vatican Press. There were things known about this issue and published by the Vatican press in the 1940s. (Meanwhile think of how many people died since then in the name of religion in places like the middle east and Ireland because this information was only held in academic circles).

What would have happened in history if at that point the story was picked up by the international press? Yahway was not the one creator god but one of MANY. Yahway priests killed and intimidated others and respun the story...repeatedly. The current version is that Yahway was and is the ONLY god and is the creator of the world.

How did I EVER get into looking at this stuff? IF....it is a lie...that yahway was the ONE true god, that lie would have had to have been created somewhere....for some reason. When was the lie created? Why was it created? DO we have the lie in its original form or did it evolve? Just how did the Yahway lie begin?

Is it possible that the stories about times before the Yahway cult were so strong that its one of the reasons for the young earth story. What about the time before when the people here worshiped other gods? What time before? The world began 6000 years ago! Its one way to try to avoid much of the history before Yahway and the Yahway priests.

Hope some of the rest of you find this area of questioning as interesting and illuminating.

Re Wikipedia....some of you scholar purists may frown on Wikipedia as a primary source. Im suggesting it as a way to begin looking at the question....and that the information is widely available to ALL for FREE. After that, feel free to purchase other books on Canaanite gods.


Other possible topics come immediate to mind. Are seashells on mountain tops....caused by a global flood (of Noah and the Ark fame) or by plate tectonics pushing up mountains from ancient sea floors...and why the all knowing deity would pick the WRONG explanation for these seashells. Some fundamentalists I have asked tell me God created the world as it IS to include with its mountains. The creation of mountains by plate tectonics is a view by nonbelievers. With that in mind I have had an interesting time asking fundamentalists what causes earthquakes. (Of note...in the southern schools where I attended, plate tectonics was as taboo as evolution.)

Any comments on casting out demons to cure the sick? My personal favorite cure technique is the Holy use of SPIT in curing blindness as mentioned in the bible book of Mark. Why aren't more Christians Christ-like and continuing that healing method?

Not just to pick on the Bible, but are there models in other holy books that are just not in keeping with current knowledge? If their books were written by stone age to iron age writers...as opposed to by a deity, would they...with their holy book(s) also get science predominately wrong?

Lots of stuff to process here. I'll go from easy to difficult.

There ARE some faith healers who continue to use Biblical methods for healing. Just not many. A better question is, if all Christians are being guided by the same deity, why are Christian practices so divergent?

Plenty of other religions get science wrong. Greeks and Norse thought lightning and thunder were the gods tossing bolts around. Vedic Hindus buy into notions of classical elementalism.

Lots of ways to tell the difference between tectonic deposits and flood deposits. Why would things like clams float up to the highest mountains to be deposited there, even if the Earth flooded? Wouldn't they have just stayed at the bottom of the ocean? The type of stone in the strata are different based on how it was formed; geologists can tell whether it comes from ocean floor, swamp, desert, riverbed, lava flow, on and on. Why aren't all types of critters found in all the strata, rather than certain species only in one geological layer and others only in different layers? Why aren't there bunnies in the Cambrian? Shouldn't there be, if the flood killed them all off at once? Did the dinosaurs all drown first, and did every last bunny stay alive long enough for them to all get dead and settled and buried before dying themselves? We can actually measure tectonic processes nowadays, with continental drift being measured in fractions of an inch per year -- look for predictions about when LA will be next to San Francisco. Also, we can see mountains being made through volcanic processes. What we can't see is enough water... anywhere... to cover the entire world. Unless maybe the world then was MUCH flatter.... before that big erosion-causing flood.... and then the mountains we see nowadays got raised up.... by tectonic processes? .... what exactly IS the evidence for a global flood, anyway? And for that matter, how did the koalas get to Australia after that flood? (And don't get me started on oak apples.)

Looks like natachan already beat me to origins of Christian beliefs, and I'm not an expert anyway. I'd point you to the deeper question of epistemology: How do we come by a belief, and is this a reliable way of discovering the truth? "Professionals subjected it to every experimental test imaginable and it held up, and they published their results so their critics, and I, can do those tests for ourselves if we feel like it," has proven one of the best methods we have for coming by the truth. "It got handed down verbatum to me from my parents/holy book" is pretty unreliable, as you're relating. So is "I feel it's true," "it makes me feel good" and "A voice in my head told me so".

In any case, welcome to the forum!
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27-11-2013, 02:19 PM
RE: Suggestions for Discussion
http://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Ye...0345384563

Here's another book that may interest you (wow, these subjects have been coming up a lot lately this is about the 4th time I've recommended this book to someone on TTA).

Long story short, Pagan religions didn't really lend themselves to control of and profit off of a population. Enter the first church. Someone saw a way to turn the mystery of death and the afterlife into a fear-based machine that pumps out money and power. They had to be tricky about it though, so they made the people believe this new thing was in some ways similar to their existing ways. So they renamed all the holidays and slowly assigned them different meanings. They offered to help the needy in exchange for their children's souls. They killed entire populations who resisted just a little too fiercely. It's a pretty good story. Would make lovely reality TV.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
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27-11-2013, 02:44 PM
RE: Suggestions for Discussion
Competition is a breeding ground for lies, cheating and backstabbing, especially where money, power & control of the masses are the main goal.

Religion is a mafia like organization that uses fear and reward to get you to pay money every week.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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