Suicidal Theist vs. Suicidal Atheist.
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06-09-2012, 10:41 PM
RE: Suicidal Theist vs. Suicidal Atheist.
Ok, being an atheist it is highly unlikely that I would ever commit suicide. That being said, I also want quality of life. If I were diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease aka Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, I would probably off myself as soon as they tell me that they will be taking away my drivers license. From what I understand, it is a fast slide downhill after that followed by at the very least months if not years in bed without the ability to move. To me that sounds enough like hell. If I were a theist I would probably try to take out one or more gods lucky ones on my way out though. Instead, I would probably drive my car off a cliff somewhere or something, so my wife could still collect my life insurance. Other than that, I can't see any reason to kill yourself. Theists on the other hand are too varied in their beliefs. Some believe in hell and think they would go there for committing suicide. Some believe that by killing infidels and dying in the process (suicide bombers), they go to heaven.
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06-09-2012, 10:58 PM
RE: Suicidal Theist vs. Suicidal Atheist.
I know that you don't understand it and hopefully you never will.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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07-09-2012, 12:03 AM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2012 12:41 AM by ShirubaDangan.)
RE: Suicidal Theist vs. Suicidal Atheist.
Thinking of a heaven or lack thereof was never on my mind when I thought about suicide. It was to end this anger, sense of failure, disgust, hatred, jealousy for others happiness that I did not share. It was to end many things and not to achieve some form of afterlife when I was a theist or thinking of the lack of heaven that went through my mind. Actually very little of it affected me until currently. If I was still a theist I would probably try to find guidance or help with whatever religious institution I was a part of and if I was an atheist like I am currently I would try to find help through doctors and therapists. I was never really affected by my theism when I was depressed or atheism as well. It was more on ending what I despised, my life. To give up on this and let go of all the emotions which were rapidly moving within my skull. I believe those who commit suicide over emotional stress never do so because they want a heaven or not it has much more to do with just not being to stand anything anymore.

I believe the largest problem with suicide is not many understand it and don't know how to solve it. That is what almost lead me to my death.

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07-09-2012, 12:39 AM
RE: Suicidal Theist vs. Suicidal Atheist.
(06-09-2012 03:30 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Okay, so I have a theory that I've considered a few times before, and though it seems logical, humans are certainly not always logical. If anyone has evidence I'd be interested to see it. Basically, I think that Atheists would be less likely to commit suicide because Atheists usually also conclude that their is no after-life. With the conclusion that there is no afterlife, it is reasonable to think that a lot of Atheists would want to continue living as long as possible, because hey, this is it. On the other hand, most theists believe in an afterlife, so if they kill themselves, they believe, hey, better luck next life.

There are other variables that I have taken into account, but I don't how how big a role they would play. One is, virtually everywhere, atheism, and atheist are bashed hard, and picked on a lot. This would possibly make (especially young) atheists more likely to be depressed, and from that, more likely to be suicidal. Some atheists just come to the conclusion that their existence is so insignificant that they become depressed and commit suicide.

Another factor to consider is some Theists consider suicide a sin so great that if committed, they will go to hell or some hell facsimile, decreasing suicide.

If you have other factors to consider that I have over-looked, or have figures from a reliable source, please share.

Every word is for me a disgraceful look into such an issue as suicide. Rather or not one is atheist, or theist (it is obvious you're not involving suicide bombers) bears no heft into the situation as it is primarily the emotional standards of one's own ability to cope with circumstance and chance that overrides what significance they feel their existence can benefit from. Especially in a case of a teenager, the situation of suicide is designed through mostly the first breakup or the constant harassment of a bully or just that constant need for attention because pity satisfies their fashion of social interaction.

It is of course also true that religion as a whole takes a great toll upon anyone who is vulnerable enough because of its restrictions and its constant symbolization of fear consumption, but this does not justify a suicidal individual as being such because of their theistic or atheistic philosophy, it means that they are not fluent enough to stand tall without the help of others or without the courage to trust others or the religion itself and thus feel outcasted, but are proud enough to stay silent about it no matter the misery.

No matter their beliefs, the word suicidal is the word that describes everyone who is contemplating or attempting, they look in the mirror, they both still deliver a reflection, they still emit a shadow in light, they still cry when sad, they both live and both perish, it does not require a type of orientation to justify one or the other nor does it help to decrease it from occurring.

There are also circumstances of suicide that do not involve any of these characteristics I have mentioned, like murder/suicides, suicides to escape arrest, self-sacrifice to save another's life, ect. I do not recall a single moment when I've heard or read about these types of occurrences when their religious views were an important factor in the article, recently in my state near my county a mother killed her 2 infants and then herself, who could forget Chris Benoit killing his entire family and then himself a few years back? I could go on, but my point is involving such pointless tidbits in a case of emotional suicide is truly absurd.

Leviticus does not justify stupidity, but it is more than enough to define corruption of the human mind.

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24-09-2012, 01:44 PM
RE: Suicidal Theist vs. Suicidal Atheist.
Well I just looked around for five minutes and found a couple of studies done from 2004-2006. Only conclusion from this is the answer that religion or lack of religion be a "can" factor in suicide. But would not be the most dominant factor in most cases.

http://www.adherents.com/misc/religion_suicide.html
The above link is a study from 2004 on a pool of 371 people in which I will just quote their results and you can read the article if you want: "Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108625/more-r...rates.aspx
The above link is broadstokes comparing the "religiosity" of the major countries with suicide rates. Keep in mind, social structure also comes into play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_suicide
Surprisingly, the wikipedia doesn't really speak on the affiliation of religion with suicide but other more dominant restrictions.

Again my conclusion is the only direct correleation with suicide and religion would be that many religions, namely christianity, hold suicide to be a grave sin. So if you believe in the Bible, commiting suicide would pretty much be out of the picture. Hope this helps, but as you can see, the numbers that are gathered are still murky.

And yet another interesting topic I am not interested in.
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24-09-2012, 02:29 PM
RE: Suicidal Theist vs. Suicidal Atheist.
Suicide is also linked to age and health. And, obviously, mental health also.

I knew one person who killed himself when middle aged - after his business failed.

I know 7 people who killed themselves after the age of 70 - all for health reasons.

All of them were religious, unless someone was a closet atheist and I didn't notice.

That's of course just anecdotal.

Teenagers don't have the concept of time and future as strongly as older people do. So they are more likely to kill themselves because of "momentary" depression. Momentary used in a broad sense here, could be a day or a year. They don't see a way out because their scope of time is limited as yet.

Most times middle aged people know that whatever is ailing them will pass. But some run into a combination of failure and midlife crisis....

Older people kill themselves much more often than is noticed or recorded. Many times it's as simple as stopping to take certain meds.

Some states, such as Oregon, have doctor assisted suicide - the right to die - laws.

So when you are faced with a degenerative disease that cannot be cured and ends in death, you are free to choose at what point to bail. You get a prescription on request and it's up to you if and when you want to take it. This actually has resulted in people living longer, there is always tomorrow to take that pill, but today you can still enjoy x,y and z. The pressure and anxiety and desperation is taken out of the equation. I support that kind of law strongly. It improves quality of life and leaves quantity in the hands where it belongs, the person themselves.

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24-09-2012, 02:34 PM
RE: Suicidal Theist vs. Suicidal Atheist.
Are you fucking kidding me? A theist who believes in postmortem preservation of identity that ain't suicidal, is lying. To himself if not to everybody else as well. There is no third option. Assholes. Undecided

What was the question, again? Consider

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24-09-2012, 02:34 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2012 03:03 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Suicidal Theist vs. Suicidal Atheist.
Suicide is not an internal intellectual debate. People who are so depressed or upset that they are actually considering it, are not rational, in any way. They in great pain. There is no "debating" AT ALL. It's not about a debate. It's about pain. Anyone who has ever actually tried it, or been close to it, or seen it, knows there is no reasoning involved. It's a person in great pain, with no possible way out in sight, wanting the huge pain to stop.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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24-09-2012, 02:57 PM
RE: Suicidal Theist vs. Suicidal Atheist.
Fuck, this thread makes me wonder if that one guy is ok.
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24-09-2012, 03:00 PM
RE: Suicidal Theist vs. Suicidal Atheist.
(24-09-2012 02:57 PM)Logisch Wrote:  Fuck, this thread makes me wonder if that one guy is ok.

Are you talking about this guy?
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...es-it-make


He hasn't returned.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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