Suicide
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13-08-2014, 04:17 AM
Suicide
In respect to certain current affairs .. I'd like to pose a question.

Is suicide ever justified?

Life is short and hard like a body building elf-- Blood Hound Gang
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13-08-2014, 04:22 AM
RE: Suicide
Well, at least you picked a light,simple subject. Smile

I believe in some cases it is. Terminal illness, running into a burning building to save someone, stepping in front of a bullet meant for someone else. Off the top of my head

The daily beatings will continue until morality improves.
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13-08-2014, 04:32 AM
RE: Suicide
Ok.. Depression induced suicide then?

Life is short and hard like a body building elf-- Blood Hound Gang
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13-08-2014, 04:38 AM
RE: Suicide
I don't think I could honestly go as far as to say it's justified, understandable yes. Certainly sad.

The daily beatings will continue until morality improves.
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13-08-2014, 05:37 AM
RE: Suicide
(13-08-2014 04:32 AM)k37713 Wrote:  Ok.. Depression induced suicide then?

I don't think 'justified' is applicable.

Do you mean should we not be allowed to intervene? Or is is ethically required to intervene? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-08-2014, 05:53 AM
RE: Suicide
I am of the feeling that , it's your life - if you want to end it that's up to you.

I also think there are many people who wouldn't choose that path if they were in a healthy mental state. But I also think that the majority of educated people know when they are slipping mentally and need to seek out the care of professionals but they choose not to.

Maybe their condition is one that makes them avoid treatment? I don't know. But I know many people with psychological problems don't want to seek help. And, at least in the US, actually getting that help is another burden on its own.

Some might say that a healthy mind would never choose suicide, I'm not sure I buy that. Many do it to avoid something worse ( like a terminal illness) or because they are just tired of where they are in life.

Dom had mentioned in another thread that age ( and the realities and ailments) that come along with it play a big part for many people.

When I think of the last 3 years of my Dads life, I would completely understand had he chose that way to check out. He had lost his wife of over 50 years that took care of him, he lived alone in his house in the woods, he couldn't get around to go outside, his friends were long gone, his children and grand children were busy with their own life, every trip to the doctor is another problem, he couldn't keep house and was too private of a person to let a stranger in. He was miserable, and lonely.

The damage it leaves on family members is probably the worst. I think there are things that can be done to minimize, but really, it's a shitty thing to do to a loved one. But death in any form sucks to loved ones.

I wholeheartedly agree with doctor assisted suicide. It is more dignified, IMO, and it takes it out of the secrets, it makes it a family discussion, no surprises, it really becomes a health choice and not clouded with all the other things like depression, loneliness, mental illness.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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13-08-2014, 06:26 AM
RE: Suicide
Suicide is the 10th. leading cause of death. Many suicides are covered up by survivors and the true statistics are likely even higher.

During normal times, by far the highest suicide rate is people above 65. This will change during times of economic depression, when suicide by male heads of household increases.

Slowly but surely, states in the US are adopting "death with dignity" acts, which allow doctors to prescribe fatal doses of meds to people who are facing a fatal disease and want to exit on their own terms.

Everyone basically wants a good life and a good death. Some of us have a stronger survival instinct than others. Interestingly, many of the people who have a prescribed lethal dose of meds do not use it. It just gives a peace of mind - should things get too hard to bear, an exit is possible.

I am all for people being in control of their own life and death.

The problem arises when you have people with mental issues of some sort committing suicide. Now you can argue that it was not a rational decision. Here I blame the lack of care for patients with mental issues. Our society sucks at caring for the mentally ill. Lack of research, stigma, undiagnosed illness and lack of treatment are to blame.

Another issue is teenagers - although actual suicides are much more rare than we think. They just get a lot more publicity. Suicide by the elderly is usually covered up, suicide by the young is exploited by the media. This accounts for a lot of the prejudice people have against rational suicide.

Nature has equipped us with the instinct for self preservation. For people in the prime of their life, in the mating game or rearing children, suicide is a horrid thing and everything must be done to prevent it, and it is always sad. But by the time your body has worn out to the point of facing some sort of death in the forseeable future, thoughts are much more focused on how to die, rather than whether to die.

The way society deals with suicide totally sucks - on both ends, prevention and facilitation.

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13-08-2014, 02:07 PM
RE: Suicide
Thanks guys for all the support, I feel much better now with the support you gave me Big Grin
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13-08-2014, 03:06 PM
RE: Suicide
There are very valid situations (chronic illness/terminal disease) when suicide may be a choice for a rational person. I have no problem with a diseased person young or old, suffering from crippling pain which will continue to the end of their life, taking themselves out.

Two years ago, my forever love chose to die of starvation with the help of morphine, rather than choking to death - the way Huntington's Chorea most often kills it's victims. He'd lived with the full knowledge of his impending demise for nearly 30 years and was quite rational in his decision to take charge of his life and discontinue food, when he got to a certain point.


The decision to take charge of one's own life and therefore death, becomes a very different decision in the hands of an irrational person.
A depressed person is not in a rational state of mind.

Suicide is in no way an option for working through stress or depression.
Suicide does not solve any problems, especially in the wake of previous destructive behavior.

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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14-08-2014, 06:58 AM
RE: Suicide
My father was beset by a long list of illnesses and *conditions* that rendered him weak, bedridden and in constant pain. He decided to forego any further treatment, and we had to respect that. The worst part was watching the tough old man suffer, just waiting and hoping to die.

I was in no position to assist him - no access to any meds, certainly I would never use a firearm or knife. So I gave him what he had missed for 30 years - real ice cream. He was diabetic and had been cut off from something so simple that he had enjoyed. So did I help kill him? Meh - probably not much of an influence that way, but maybe a little. Gave him a few minutes of enjoyment, though.

I know he would have taken a Final Dose of something if it had been available. And I think I would have given it to him and fetched a glass of water.

He was beyond any cure, so I do understand this. For those who ~might~ find relief, I'm not so sure I understand.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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