Suicide, the one-way ticket to heaven?
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30-11-2011, 03:52 PM
RE: Suicide, the one-way ticket to heaven?
I shall tell you. Your point is good. Paul himself says in Philippians 1:21, "To live is Christ, and to die is gain."
But the Bible forbids it. Before Jesus left Earth, he gave the Great Commission as a command, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:18B-20).
We are commanded to spread the Word of God, and how are we to do that if we are dead? Why should I allow myself to die and go to heaven, when if I stayed alive I may have been able to bring somebody else to Christ, and get them a ticket to heaven as well as myself.
Second, Exodus 20:13 says, "You shall not murder." Suicide is considered the murder of oneself.
But, if you want a simple answer, I would say we are to stay on Earth because Jesus commanded us in the Great Commission to go and evangelize to all people, and we cannot do that if we are dead.
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30-11-2011, 03:59 PM
 
RE: Suicide, the one-way ticket to heaven?
(30-11-2011 03:52 PM)HeWillPrevail Wrote:  I shall tell you. Your point is good. Paul himself says in Philippians 1:21, "To live is Christ, and to die is gain."
But the Bible forbids it. Before Jesus left Earth, he gave the Great Commission as a command, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:18B-20).
We are commanded to spread the Word of God, and how are we to do that if we are dead? Why should I allow myself to die and go to heaven, when if I stayed alive I may have been able to bring somebody else to Christ, and get them a ticket to heaven as well as myself.
Second, Exodus 20:13 says, "You shall not murder." Suicide is considered the murder of oneself.
But, if you want a simple answer, I would say we are to stay on Earth because Jesus commanded us in the Great Commission to go and evangelize to all people, and we cannot do that if we are dead.

I wonder if a woman grabs a mans groin as he is comitting suicide, if he must stop the act of suicide and have her hand cut off before he continue? I am rereading the bible again and i hope to possibly clear that up. All those laws get mess up my confuser..

Jesus also said for me to follow him i must basically abandon my family. That whole line of reason actually flies in the face of MY moral compass as a Humanist. Odd how that is.....
Anyone loving their imaginary pal more than their wife and kids...must have a terrible family!

D
I had a thread very similar in nature about this months ago. Similar as it discussed suicide as the option for redemption...aka John 3:16

If you believe IN the Trinity, then all three dudes are one...which means Jesus comitted suicide on the cross. Somehow in trinity math, the father son and holy polgergoost are one. (1+1+1=1), which means god...by example.. supports suicide.

If you are iffy on the Trinity, then God allowed his son to be murdered, but being the all powerful dude he is....'gave' him...which would be considered 2nd degree manslaughter today.

Generally christians recoil at this line of reasoning....but thats simply because they have not given it ANY thought and have been romanced with the flowerly language of a supposed brutal murder. Funny what a few 'Thus', 'Thy' and 'Gives' can do to peoples rational mind.

D
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30-11-2011, 11:39 PM
RE: Suicide, the one-way ticket to heaven?
I don't know if anyone has brought it up yet, but I haven't figured out why true believers don't just baptize their babies, then kill them. It can be a designated person who does the killing and it can be painless like lethal injection. Then immediately afterward, the person asks forgiveness and is saved. That way, there is no temptation for the babies. All baptized euthanized babies would go straight to heaven. If you REALLY believed in your religion, this would be the most righteous thing you can do. I always hear, "well God wants us to experience life and yada yada..." which of course raises the question, "how do you know what God wants?" God ultimately wants us to be in heaven with him, yes? It's not the babies fault, so God would have to admit them in paradise.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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01-12-2011, 09:20 AM
 
RE: Suicide, the one-way ticket to heaven?
(30-11-2011 03:52 PM)HeWillPrevail Wrote:  I shall tell you. Your point is good. Paul himself says in Philippians 1:21, "To live is Christ, and to die is gain."
But the Bible forbids it. Before Jesus left Earth, he gave the Great Commission as a command, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:18B-20).
We are commanded to spread the Word of God, and how are we to do that if we are dead? Why should I allow myself to die and go to heaven, when if I stayed alive I may have been able to bring somebody else to Christ, and get them a ticket to heaven as well as myself.
Second, Exodus 20:13 says, "You shall not murder." Suicide is considered the murder of oneself.
But, if you want a simple answer, I would say we are to stay on Earth because Jesus commanded us in the Great Commission to go and evangelize to all people, and we cannot do that if we are dead.

So was this a sincere attempt to have a discussion...or were you just following the COMMANDMENT of your imaginary slave owner?

Like "Well, visited the hellbound atheist forum...so i can check that one off my list. Didnt have to talk to them or even use my brain..just tossed a few warm and fuzzy verses at them and i know the holy poltergoost will be happy at me".


Got news for ya....many of us in this forum can go toe to toe with you when it comes to barfing up verses!

D
(30-11-2011 11:39 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  I don't know if anyone has brought it up yet, but I haven't figured out why true believers don't just baptize their babies, then kill them. It can be a designated person who does the killing and it can be painless like lethal injection. Then immediately afterward, the person asks forgiveness and is saved. That way, there is no temptation for the babies. All baptized euthanized babies would go straight to heaven. If you REALLY believed in your religion, this would be the most righteous thing you can do. I always hear, "well God wants us to experience life and yada yada..." which of course raises the question, "how do you know what God wants?" God ultimately wants us to be in heaven with him, yes? It's not the babies fault, so God would have to admit them in paradise.

Hey Buddy Christ...you are talking about a "Post Birth Abortion"! God did this with his own son, so it should be good for all his off spring, right?

BTW, i drink your milkshake! (what a film!!!!)

D
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01-12-2011, 09:44 AM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2011 09:46 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Suicide, the one-way ticket to heaven?
(30-11-2011 03:52 PM)HeWillPrevail Wrote:  I shall tell you. Your point is good. Paul himself says in Philippians 1:21, "To live is Christ, and to die is gain."
But the Bible forbids it. Before Jesus left Earth, he gave the Great Commission as a command, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:18B-20).
We are commanded to spread the Word of God, and how are we to do that if we are dead? Why should I allow myself to die and go to heaven, when if I stayed alive I may have been able to bring somebody else to Christ, and get them a ticket to heaven as well as myself.
Second, Exodus 20:13 says, "You shall not murder." Suicide is considered the murder of oneself.
But, if you want a simple answer, I would say we are to stay on Earth because Jesus commanded us in the Great Commission to go and evangelize to all people, and we cannot do that if we are dead.
Wrong, wrong, wrong... Big Grin

Acceptance of the Holy Spirit means eternal life is now.

What part of your own doctrine do you not understand? Lemme help you with the heavy lifting: I can commit suicide, but I cannot die. You musta went to one o' them drive in churches. Wink

(30-11-2011 11:39 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  I don't know if anyone has brought it up yet, but I haven't figured out why true believers don't just baptize their babies, then kill them.
I'm thinking you don't actually want the answer. Wink

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04-12-2011, 04:13 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2011 04:22 PM by theophilus.)
RE: Suicide, the one-way ticket to heaven?
Getting to heaven isn't the main objective of becoming a Christian. The benefit of salvation is that the sins that have separated us from God have been forgiven. As a result we are now part of God's family and we have a desire to please him and serve him.

Quote:For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
(Ephesians 2:8-10 ESV)

We are given work to do on this earth and we can't do that if we try to leave this world before God wants us to. I am looking forward to the time I enter Heaven but first I want to finish the work God has given me. I belong to God and he is the one who will decide when it is time for me to go to heaven.

There is one other thing to consider. In heaven I will receive rewards for all the good things I have done. This is something above and beyond salvation, which is a gift. If I go too soon I will miss out on some of the rewards I could have earned.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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04-12-2011, 04:40 PM
 
RE: Suicide, the one-way ticket to heaven?
Quote:There is one other thing to consider. In heaven I will receive rewards for all the good things I have done. This is something above and beyond salvation, which is a gift. If I go too soon I will miss out on some of the rewards I could have earned.


don't you see how ridiculous this is?
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04-12-2011, 06:11 PM
RE: Suicide, the one-way ticket to heaven?
(04-12-2011 04:13 PM)theophilus Wrote:  There is one other thing to consider. In heaven I will receive rewards for all the good things I have done. This is something above and beyond salvation, which is a gift. If I go too soon I will miss out on some of the rewards I could have earned.

Goddam, that's like heaven as some sort of postmortem capitalism, ... it's just so wrong in so many different ways that I am starting to think that you are truly damned and cannot be saved. Sad

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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04-12-2011, 06:24 PM
RE: Suicide, the one-way ticket to heaven?
(04-12-2011 06:11 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(04-12-2011 04:13 PM)theophilus Wrote:  There is one other thing to consider. In heaven I will receive rewards for all the good things I have done. This is something above and beyond salvation, which is a gift. If I go too soon I will miss out on some of the rewards I could have earned.

Goddam, that's like heaven as some sort of postmortem capitalism, ... it's just so wrong in so many different ways that I am starting to think that you are truly damned and cannot be saved. Sad

I disagree with the sanction against this individual, but I agree with the generalization. And I haven't found this cat to be one of the "offensive ones." Wink

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04-12-2011, 07:36 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2011 07:44 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Suicide, the one-way ticket to heaven?
(04-12-2011 06:24 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(04-12-2011 06:11 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(04-12-2011 04:13 PM)theophilus Wrote:  There is one other thing to consider. In heaven I will receive rewards for all the good things I have done. This is something above and beyond salvation, which is a gift. If I go too soon I will miss out on some of the rewards I could have earned.

Goddam, that's like heaven as some sort of postmortem capitalism, ... it's just so wrong in so many different ways that I am starting to think that you are truly damned and cannot be saved. Sad

I disagree with the sanction against this individual, but I agree with the generalization. And I haven't found this cat to be one of the "offensive ones." Wink


I personally like theophilus. ... Quite a bit. ... God help him.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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