Support our troops.
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23-09-2011, 12:58 PM
 
Support our troops.
I just finished watching another MASH episode.

I can not imagine any human being, who has seen those images from the Korean War, to be able to support another war ever again.

Yet, it has been happening like clockwork, year after year.

And the citizenry ties yellow ribbons on their lampposts and keep chanting: "Support our troops!"

I am sure they mean to support them in their noble activities of killing, maiming, brutalizing people they have never met.

What about supporting them by bringing them home?

I was inspired to write a poem and post in on the Poet's Corner thread (Post #50).

You may read it there if you are brave enough.

It is called "Anger".
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23-09-2011, 02:22 PM
RE: Support our troops.
War will always happen, whether we like it or not. I am reminded of Cormac McCarthy, writing in his masterpiece Blood Meridian:

"It makes no difference what men think of war," said the Judge. "War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner."

The military exists to kill and destroy. That is our function and we do it exceedingly well. Everyone who joins the military is swearing themselves to a life of death, violence, and bloodshed. We do this in the hope that those who send us to fight do so with temperance and wisdom, sending us only into conflicts that are necessary for the protection of our nation. Obviously, this is not always the case.

Protecting us from going to war at all is unnecessary. You may as well beg for all wars to end, which will never occur. Instead, support us by showing wisdom in choosing which wars we fight, and sending us out with the political will to win those wars by any and all means necessary to ensure victory.

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23-09-2011, 02:26 PM
 
RE: Support our troops.
(23-09-2011 02:22 PM)17thknight Wrote:  War will always happen, whether we like it or not.

Wars don't just happen.

Some fucking bastards start them.

Angry
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23-09-2011, 02:49 PM (This post was last modified: 23-09-2011 02:53 PM by 17thknight.)
RE: Support our troops.
(23-09-2011 02:26 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(23-09-2011 02:22 PM)17thknight Wrote:  War will always happen, whether we like it or not.

Wars don't just happen.

Some fucking bastards start them.

Angry

And they always will, unto the end of mankind. If 99% of people wanted peace and 1% did not, there would be all out war. Peace is a fiction.

The best way to afford yourself peace is to be so powerful that no one dare attack you. And even then, some people like to poke sleeping tigers.

The problem with that, however, is that once you cannot be opposed, it is then incumbent upon you to be peaceful.

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23-09-2011, 02:54 PM
 
RE: Support our troops.
(23-09-2011 02:49 PM)17thknight Wrote:  The best way to afford yourself peace is to be so powerful that no one dare attack you. And even then, some people like to poke sleeping tigers.

I heard that beauty in communist Russia.

"If you want peace, prepare for war!"

The slogans never die, the bastards never die, only the cannon-fodder and their victims die!

Heil our glorious species!

Amen!
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23-09-2011, 03:00 PM
RE: Support our troops.
(23-09-2011 02:54 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(23-09-2011 02:49 PM)17thknight Wrote:  The best way to afford yourself peace is to be so powerful that no one dare attack you. And even then, some people like to poke sleeping tigers.

I heard that beauty in communist Russia.

"If you want peace, prepare for war!"

The slogans never die, the bastards never die, only the cannon-fodder and their victims die!

Heil our glorious species!

Amen!

It is true, though. If you begin to disarm you only open yourself to those who refuse to do the same. What the world requires are nations that are unimaginably powerful and who do not use that power offensively. This, though, is also a fiction because sooner or later the ability for politics to solve differences between nations fails and war results.

People were warring with each other in the Greek Polis' which had a couple thousand people a piece. Barely small towns, and they all shared similar culture.

It's just what we are. Resources and power are limited, and so we fight over them and make up reasons for why we're doing it to assuage our consciences.

Or we simply do it because we like to.

I hate to keep pooping on your parade, I just don't believe we should strive for a world of perfect peace, because sooner or later soemone decides they don't want peace and then you must deal with them on their terms, and you have to win.

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23-09-2011, 03:11 PM
 
RE: Support our troops.
I know all the arguments supporting bully-fights in a sandbox.

When Albert Einstein was approached during WWII and asked to support the Manhattan Project, his answer was: "Gentlemen, your reasons are unanswerable, your justification is irrefutable, your case is compelling -- however, I will not do it. Why? Because it is wrong."

I suggest you take a look at my post in the following thread (Post #11):

Ethical Issues with a potential job
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23-09-2011, 03:24 PM
RE: Support our troops.
(23-09-2011 03:11 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  I know all the arguments supporting bully-fights in a sandbox.

When Albert Einstein was approached during WWII and asked to support the Manhattan Project, his answer was: "Gentlemen, your reasons are unanswerable, your justification is irrefutable, your case is compelling -- however, I will not do it. Why? Because it is wrong."

I suggest you take a look at my post in the following thread (Post #11):

Ethical Issues with a potential job

An interesting piece, I read it entirely, but the problem is that if you sit on your laurels and do not advance weaponry and your capabilities to fight, then your opponent will. And they might not be so even-handed in its deployment. Everyone not making weapons and sitting around being buddy buddy is a nice fiction, but it is just that: fiction.

If a good nation (say mine) compels a scientist to do something, and they say "no" then that's the end of it. Meanwhile a more corrupt nation might put a gun to his family's heads and say "Do it or they die". Everyone has a breaking point. So the nation that accepts no as an answer is severely behind the nation that gets what it wants by any means necessary. Then the more corrupt nation wins the war. And then their rule is supreme.

It is imperative to win wars and advance technology, because we have the luxury, the sheer joy, of living in a world where relatively benign and supremely powerful nations control most of the strings.

My MOST IMPORTANT point is: what happens in situations like Kosovo and the Balkans? Do you just sit back and do nothing? That is just as evil as being involved in the slaughter. "Well you stop it form happening". IF you lack military superiority, how exactly are you supposed to do that? Ask very nicely? Non-intervention leads to mass slaughter like in Rwanda.

The world requires supremely powerful countries to prevent wars, and to stop wars when they begin. Yes, that then means those supremely powerful countries can attack without opposition, but this is preferable to a world where any petty dictator can mass-slaughter millions of people, comfortable in the knowledge that no one can, or will, stop him.

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23-09-2011, 03:30 PM
 
RE: Support our troops.
(23-09-2011 03:24 PM)17thknight Wrote:  An interesting piece, I read it entirely, but the problem is that if you sit on your laurels and do not advance weaponry and your capabilities to fight, then your opponent will.

... and where will it end?

in total self-destruction for both sides.

The generals might argue, over the hot-line, from the bottom of their respective mine-shaft bunkers about which of them won the war, but the planet will be trashed.

For chrissake, use your imagination and follow your argument to its logical conclusion.

Rolleyes
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23-09-2011, 03:33 PM
RE: Support our troops.
(23-09-2011 03:30 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(23-09-2011 03:24 PM)17thknight Wrote:  An interesting piece, I read it entirely, but the problem is that if you sit on your laurels and do not advance weaponry and your capabilities to fight, then your opponent will.

... and where will it end?

in total self-destruction for both sides.

The generals might argue, over the hot-line, from the bottom of their respective mine-shaft bunkers about which of them won the war, but the planet will be trashed.

For chrissake, use your imagination and follow your argument to its logical conclusion.

Rolleyes

Not at all. That's what everyone said the Cold War would end in, but it ended without either side firing a shot. We exist in that state to this day with many countries.

If that was going to happen, it would have already, but it didn't. And it won't. Because it is impossible to attack these nations without destroying yourself.

Also, you ignored the second half of my post.

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