Surprised and shocked.
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21-06-2017, 05:50 PM
Surprised and shocked.
So I've been doing small baby steps to get my wife to be less afraid of talking about religion with me, and to understand my position a little more. Today I feel I may have made a good amount of progress. She seeing herself as a Christian.

Recently Samantha Bee did a bit on Child Brides. And how politicians have dance around changed the laws that allow girls as young as 13 get married. On the grounds of religious freedom.





Anyway i played it in the background while she was in the room and her response what one would hope to get. shock and disgust.
"What sort of religion would all that?" She said in disbelief.
"Jewdism, Islam, Christianity.." I was cut off before I could finish
"NO!" She exlamed "Christianity wouldn't do anything like that."

"It's in the Bible." I responded completely straight faced. "it even say's rapist get to marry their victims."
"No. it isn't." She responded feeling I was just lying to her because of my atheism.
I walked to the room she keeps her bible pulled it out and showed her the passages.

Quote:Deuteronomy: 22:28 - 29 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife
When she was a young girl she was a victim of rape. So this hit home for her. She read the whole passage to understand it in full.

"So if these laws where enforced I would have to have married that monster." She said in fear. "This was written for a different time."

"That may be true, but people still applie those ideas today. As you just saw."

Clearly disturbed "I don't like that."

Looking her in the eyes "Neither do I."

The was a little more back and forth but that was the jist that I can remember.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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22-06-2017, 12:49 AM
RE: Surprised and shocked.
I'm very sorry to hear what your wife went through.

It sounds like this is some excellent progress. Of course, it was written for a different time, by the people who lived at that time. It's just a reflection of their (subjective) morality as it stood. That's why it's of little to no relevance 2000 years later, except to understand their culture somewhat.

This was at a time where, supposedly, God was extremely active. He was running around deciding exactly what rules he wanted to lay down for all time. And he couldn't even manage to persuade a load of goat herders to change their ideas about rape and slavery. Or he wouldn't, and he thought they were fine. He was pretty explicit about all the hundreds of other things that were to be done exactly how he wanted them to be, whether people liked it or not.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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22-06-2017, 09:58 AM
RE: Surprised and shocked.
She does know that Mary may have been as young as 12-13, right?
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22-06-2017, 10:43 AM
RE: Surprised and shocked.
I hope you remembered to give her a big ol' hug after all that! Hug


What, I'm a hugger. Big ol' bear hugs.

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22-06-2017, 12:25 PM
RE: Surprised and shocked.
(21-06-2017 05:50 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  So I've been doing small baby steps to get my wife to be less afraid of talking about religion with me, and to understand my position a little more.

Bravo, Commonsensei! Smile I think atheists should always feel empowered to call out the fantasies of religious fundamentalists. I'm an atheist - someone who believes that God does not exist (though I also believe that God is logically necessary). I don't have much of a problem with theists, so long as they're at least willing to listen to alternative perspectives. But so many fundamentalists that I have talked to don't want to listen to any countermanding evidence of any sort. It's not just Christians. We usually get a couple of Mormon "missionaries" at our house about once every 4 to 5 months. They are out trying to sell their very staunchly fundamentalist version of Mormonism. I've taken to arguing with them by doing exactly what you did-- I cite passages from the Bible (or the Book of Mormon) that say things they don't actually believe. Most fundamentalists don't actually believe what their "scriptures" actually say. They believe a fantasy version of those scriptures. And when you call them out on it I have found that they have no defense.
You should always be polite-- no cursing, no name calling, no anger. Just show them calmly and honestly what the scriptures actually say. Most of them will listen. They may not accept anything you say, but I have found that they will listen.
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22-06-2017, 01:45 PM
RE: Surprised and shocked.
(21-06-2017 05:50 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  So I've been doing small baby steps to get my wife to be less afraid of talking about religion with me, and to understand my position a little more. Today I feel I may have made a good amount of progress. She seeing herself as a Christian.

Recently Samantha Bee did a bit on Child Brides. And how politicians have dance around changed the laws that allow girls as young as 13 get married. On the grounds of religious freedom.





Anyway i played it in the background while she was in the room and her response what one would hope to get. shock and disgust.
"What sort of religion would all that?" She said in disbelief.
"Jewdism, Islam, Christianity.." I was cut off before I could finish
"NO!" She exlamed "Christianity wouldn't do anything like that."

"It's in the Bible." I responded completely straight faced. "it even say's rapist get to marry their victims."
"No. it isn't." She responded feeling I was just lying to her because of my atheism.
I walked to the room she keeps her bible pulled it out and showed her the passages.

Quote:Deuteronomy: 22:28 - 29 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife
When she was a young girl she was a victim of rape. So this hit home for her. She read the whole passage to understand it in full.

"So if these laws where enforced I would have to have married that monster." She said in fear. "This was written for a different time."

"That may be true, but people still applie those ideas today. As you just saw."

Clearly disturbed "I don't like that."

Looking her in the eyes "Neither do I."

The was a little more back and forth but that was the jist that I can remember.

Commonsensei, based on this post, I think that you and I are in a very similar place in our significant other relationships. When I "came out" to my husband it shook him far deeper than I'd anticipated, although I wouldn't even consider him to be a particularly religious person. We too are getting there in baby steps and just a few days ago made a leap in progress. I wish you luck in your journey and look forward to seeing you share it here. I am a newbie here, and I am so grateful for this place where I can speak freely. I feel like I've finally found *my people.*

Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
"Life is not all lovely thorns and singing vultures, you know." ~ Morticia Addams
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22-06-2017, 06:26 PM
RE: Surprised and shocked.
(22-06-2017 01:45 PM)outtathereligioncloset Wrote:  
(21-06-2017 05:50 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  So I've been doing small baby steps to get my wife to be less afraid of talking about religion with me, and to understand my position a little more. Today I feel I may have made a good amount of progress. She seeing herself as a Christian.

Recently Samantha Bee did a bit on Child Brides. And how politicians have dance around changed the laws that allow girls as young as 13 get married. On the grounds of religious freedom.





Anyway i played it in the background while she was in the room and her response what one would hope to get. shock and disgust.
"What sort of religion would all that?" She said in disbelief.
"Jewdism, Islam, Christianity.." I was cut off before I could finish
"NO!" She exlamed "Christianity wouldn't do anything like that."

"It's in the Bible." I responded completely straight faced. "it even say's rapist get to marry their victims."
"No. it isn't." She responded feeling I was just lying to her because of my atheism.
I walked to the room she keeps her bible pulled it out and showed her the passages.

When she was a young girl she was a victim of rape. So this hit home for her. She read the whole passage to understand it in full.

"So if these laws where enforced I would have to have married that monster." She said in fear. "This was written for a different time."

"That may be true, but people still applie those ideas today. As you just saw."

Clearly disturbed "I don't like that."

Looking her in the eyes "Neither do I."

The was a little more back and forth but that was the jist that I can remember.

Commonsensei, based on this post, I think that you and I are in a very similar place in our significant other relationships. When I "came out" to my husband it shook him far deeper than I'd anticipated, although I wouldn't even consider him to be a particularly religious person. We too are getting there in baby steps and just a few days ago made a leap in progress. I wish you luck in your journey and look forward to seeing you share it here. I am a newbie here, and I am so grateful for this place where I can speak freely. I feel like I've finally found *my people.*

Yeah my wife didn't know I was an atheist for the first year we dated. All though I didn't hide it. When her family would pray I would remain quiet. When they would invite me to their church I wouldn't refuse. But once she found out it shook her world. I've believe I've had made posts in the past about my progress.

I speak honestly with her. I make my points as clear as I can not to confuse her. And if there is ever a moment of doubt I back it up with facts. I love her and don't want her to live life as a lie.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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23-06-2017, 09:10 AM
RE: Surprised and shocked.
It's great that you two have made this important step. Your wife obviously learned something very important there. Not only about her religion but also that you are not pulling it out of your ass and just saying things. This might open doors for the future. Great!

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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24-06-2017, 03:20 AM
RE: Surprised and shocked.
I had no idea child marriages were legal anywhere in the US. On top of that, it appears to be a way of dodging statutory rape charges. What the actual? Clearly religion is behind this.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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28-06-2017, 12:47 PM
RE: Surprised and shocked.
"Arranging fresh-cut flowers in your perfectly GOOPed home..."

?

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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