Surprised by offence taken by expressing an atheist/skeptic view
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18-09-2016, 11:03 AM
RE: Surprised by offence taken by expressing an atheist/skeptic view
I can't stand being around people who keep talking about god. I have religious friends, but not the kind that shouts "praise the lord" instead of thanking folks who have helped them (like physicians Smile )

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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18-09-2016, 11:23 AM
RE: Surprised by offence taken by expressing an atheist/skeptic view
Hi everyone! Thanks for your many responses! It is nice to hear different views, so I can look at my own actions in different lights.

@Gloucester: I agree that the way one says thing and body language is important. While I do not think i said it in a condescending or offensive way (it definitely wasn't my intention), it is possible that I came across harsher than was my intention. I also agree to your statements about science. My reply was more or less the same.

@Zeff: Thank you for your well stuffed response! I am relieved to hear that I don't flat out come across as prejudiced. Smile It was the first time that I really openly stated how firm my atheism is, so maybe everyone was just caught off guard. Maybe it would be easier in a different setting, with more knowledge about each others convictions in advance.

I can imagine it is possible to have a relationship with someone with a different world view, if it's not too dominating. However, I feel that my current relationship is so much richer and more fun, because I share the same world view with my boyfriend. I would miss that a lot!

Perhaps I should have made a less general statement, as Cactus or Dom do, and specify more what exactly it is I think would mess up a relationship.

Thanks again for taking the time to write! I appreciate it!
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18-09-2016, 11:52 AM
RE: Surprised by offence taken by expressing an atheist/skeptic view
Hi Ankeltje,

We should have a symbolic burning of Andrew Wakefield in effigy. How does Nov. 5 sound?

Without the actual context it's hard to tell what went wrong with your conversations. I could be that you're too agressive. It could be that your friends are too thin-skinned.

*Strictly* speaking it is a predjudice. You have pre-judged the person based on a single characterstic. That said, so is crooked teeth, soccer fans and any other "deal breaker". Your friends were cheerfully discussing prejudice when they condemned yours. A little hypocrisy there especially seeing as how deep religious differences are going to be much more problematic in a relationship than whether hubby needs an orthodontist. I don't see anything unreasonable in your statement and would have similar difficulties.

The "science is evil" argument is telling if you didn't bring it up. It's sloppy thinking, science is a tool and no more good or evil than a wrench. It can be used for good or evil but only by people who are good or evil. "Science is also a religion" is complete rubbish. Questioning your friends' faith was probably inadvisable. That never ends well. It's fine to poke fun at the faiths that aren't in the room (Ha, ha! Look at those wacky scientologists!) but the beliefs of those present are off limits (Who wants blood and flesh of Christ?). And yes, that's hypocritical too.

Sounds like you've misjudged your friends. They clearly cling to religion more dearly than you'd suspected. It's a topic you should avoid with them in the future. Hopefully they'll have the sense to avoid it with you.

And yeah, browse through the other threads in this section to see how bad it gets in the states. I occasionally feel guilty for living in a sane country like Canada.

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18-09-2016, 12:03 PM
RE: Surprised by offence taken by expressing an atheist/skeptic view
(18-09-2016 11:23 AM)Ankeltje86 Wrote:  I can imagine it is possible to have a relationship with someone with a different world view, if it's not too dominating. However, I feel that my current relationship is so much richer and more fun, because I share the same world view with my boyfriend. I would miss that a lot!

Slight differences in world view typically aren't a problem. I likely wouldn't have any major difficulty in a relationship with a liberal theist. A moderate theist would be trickier and somebody who was extremely devout would be so problematic that I doubt that I'd ever consider it. That said, we have member of the forum who are in relationships like that, some quite happily, so it can work.

I expect that what we're looking at is shades of grey that didn't make it into the argument with your friends. I'm doubting that many of them would consider a relationship with a member of the Klan or a devout Muslim who insisted that they wear a burka. You simply draw the line in a slightly different place as one might expect given your lack of belief. Trying to convey that can be tricky.

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18-09-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: Surprised by offence taken by expressing an atheist/skeptic view
(18-09-2016 11:03 AM)Dom Wrote:  I can't stand being around people who keep talking about god. I have religious friends, but not the kind that shouts "praise the lord" instead of thanking folks who have helped them (like physicians Smile )
Oh my I had not heard that in a while, but it brought it back!
One of the nicest guys I had the pleasure to work with was home schooled by devout conservative theists. His father stopped by work and I took a moment to say how much we appreciated him. "Praise the LORD" was fired back at me like a command. Oh for fucks sake go lay down, I thought.
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18-09-2016, 01:54 PM
RE: Surprised by offence taken by expressing an atheist/skeptic view
(18-09-2016 07:27 AM)Ankeltje86 Wrote:  
(18-09-2016 06:52 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  By definition, your statement is a prejudice. That's probably it. I feel the same way, but it's still a prejudice.

In related news, if you hate Gwyneth Paltrow, we cannot be friends. Yeah, it's just one of those things...

Makes me think perhaps you're just too honest? There are things, lines, if you will, that must not be crossed; things that must not be spoken of; not because of censorship, nor the conception that "faith is sacred," beyond debate, but because of context.

The simplicity of the statement "I ain't interested in a faith-head" still speaks of a conclusion not justified by observation. When love finds you, you're either gonna deal or you're gonna suffer. I mean, my god's a total whack job....

Avoid such sweeping generalizations in the future, is my advice. Wink

Thanks for responding!

I can see how you could come to the conclusion that me thinking religiosity is a deal breaker is a prejudice. I haven't looked at it that way before, so it's interesting to consider this point of view. However, when my friends say that crooked teeth, living too far from their city or being a soccer-nut are their deal breakers, I don't see why mine is worse, except maybe religion is just more off limits?

Thanks again for your response, I shall chew on your comment for a bit longer. Smile

@ Peebothuhul: thanks for the hug! Smile

I'd say that for most religionists a person not of their religion is a deal breaker, if they are serious about their religion.
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18-09-2016, 01:58 PM
RE: Surprised by offence taken by expressing an atheist/skeptic view
Have you praised God today? Is a common question comment among my brother and his group. When they hit me with that I have begun to ask."Have you seen him? I am wanting to have a chat with him."
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01-10-2016, 02:07 AM
RE: Surprised by offence taken by expressing an atheist/skeptic view
Hi Paleophyte,

While Andrew Wakefield has done a lot of damage and anti-vaxxers make me want to pull out my hair, I'm not a big fan of burning stuff. But I will very happily participate in a swearing-fest directed at him. Smile

I agree that I misjudges my friends' position on religion, and I agree that I shouldn't bring it up again. I am more careful now. Luckily, we have talked after the event and all is fine. They also do not bring it up. Some of my more new-age oriented friends do like to bring up big pharma and evil shill physicians regularly though... But nothing I can't handle with a Medline search and a sprinkle of nuance. Wink

Thanks to all for your feedback!
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01-10-2016, 02:19 AM
RE: Surprised by offence taken by expressing an atheist/skeptic view
(18-09-2016 01:45 PM)skyking Wrote:  
(18-09-2016 11:03 AM)Dom Wrote:  I can't stand being around people who keep talking about god. I have religious friends, but not the kind that shouts "praise the lord" instead of thanking folks who have helped them (like physicians Smile )
Oh my I had not heard that in a while, but it brought it back!
One of the nicest guys I had the pleasure to work with was home schooled by devout conservative theists. His father stopped by work and I took a moment to say how much we appreciated him. "Praise the LORD" was fired back at me like a command. Oh for fucks sake go lay down, I thought.

This reminds me of the time I had an accident when I was a teenager. I got hit by a bus while crossing the street on a bike, with severe neurotrauma. From what i heard my odds of full recovery were very slim, but I made it, whit out noticable neurological damage. My family in Taiwan, whom are Buddhist, were thanking Buddah for his protection. But I am much more grateful for the person that stopped and performed first aid, for the one that called an ambulance, for the ambulance crew, for the police that redirected traffic and secured the area, for the ER crew, for the ICU crew, for the physician and his team that had to perform neurosurgery in the middle of the night twice, for the physiotherapy crew, for the government that provides accessible health care, for the tax payers that fund it and for the support from my friends and family.
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