Surveillance
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12-06-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: Surveillance
(10-06-2013 07:59 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(10-06-2013 07:17 PM)I and I Wrote:  Which means that a people voting in its leaders is not a guarantee of a free society. Voting is seen as the be all end all definition of a free society.

Spoken like a true anarchist. Wink

And what's wrong with anarchism...? Wink

(If that's what you were implying Tongue )

"Humans always measure what they see in front of them to what they already know. They will deny anything outside of that. They are shallow lifeforms, so enthralled with superficial appearances that they fail to see the truth."
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12-06-2013, 03:46 PM
RE: Surveillance
It's funny how americans do nothing about their own government spying on everyone yet point the finger at other nations for doing the same thing.

Which only further proves that so called human rights groups are ideologically driven and not really concerned about "rights".
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12-06-2013, 03:49 PM
RE: Surveillance
People are now wondering if this guy will be assassinated. If he is, the american public will wet it's panties in joy and praise the U.S. government for it's quick response to "bad people".

I am glad we don't live North Korea because there we would be forced to pretend love for the government, here we actually do love our governments oppressive policies and are brainwashed more properly.

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12-06-2013, 10:16 PM
RE: Surveillance
(12-06-2013 02:59 PM)MrAttacus Wrote:  And what's wrong with anarchism...? Wink

At first blush... nothing. But then you gotta ask what sort of anarchism are we talking about?

I'm anarcho-capitalist or, voluntarist, as the PC description goes but I don't fault anyone who rejects indoctrination and arbitrary authority. Smile

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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12-06-2013, 10:20 PM
RE: Surveillance
(12-06-2013 10:16 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 02:59 PM)MrAttacus Wrote:  And what's wrong with anarchism...? Wink

At first blush... nothing. But then you gotta ask what sort of anarchism are we talking about?

I'm anarcho-capitalist or, voluntarist, as the PC description goes but I don't fault anyone who rejects indoctrination and arbitrary authority. Smile

You could have just said you like Ayn Rand and that would better sum up your beliefs.
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12-06-2013, 10:28 PM
RE: Surveillance
(12-06-2013 10:20 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 10:16 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  At first blush... nothing. But then you gotta ask what sort of anarchism are we talking about?

I'm anarcho-capitalist or, voluntarist, as the PC description goes but I don't fault anyone who rejects indoctrination and arbitrary authority. Smile

You could have just said you like Ayn Rand and that would better sum up your beliefs.
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But that would be relatively dishonest. I don't dislike Rand but I'm also not an objectivist or a minarchist so what would make you think I'm an Ayn Rand fanboi?

'Tis not a good idea to put people in boxes. Especially those you don't know. Wink

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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12-06-2013, 10:34 PM
RE: Surveillance
(12-06-2013 10:28 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 10:20 PM)I and I Wrote:  You could have just said you like Ayn Rand and that would better sum up your beliefs.
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But that would be relatively dishonest. I don't dislike Rand but I'm also not an objectivist or a minarchist so what would make you think I'm an Ayn Rand fanboi?

'Tis not a good idea to put people in boxes. Especially those you don't know. Wink

A hardcore Rand follower would pass the buck and only blame the government for spying and not place any blame on corporate collusion.
From your comments I have seen on this site, they are very similar to many randyans.

What are your thoughts on private companies (contract work) and governments colluding in making and implementing the vast computer network to spy on everyone?
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12-06-2013, 10:49 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2013 10:58 PM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Surveillance
So what is the difference between an anarcho-capitalist and a minarchist. Simply scope? ...and isn't objectivism akin to atheism?

I think Ayn did a great job at spotting potential problems like that the inflation of bureaucracy would lead to the corruption/misuse of bureaucracy and that government agencies interested in self preservation would make power grabs, that more government equates to more back doors for business to enter government and more of a desire for businesses to want to enter government...

but I think her solutions where naive and shortsighted. You need environmental regulations otherwise the greedy and careless will destroy our water tables, give us all cancer, etc. and you need a minimum wage and safety regulations or else we become Bangladesh. The prime movers are not always benevolent, you can't have individuals with enough power to crash entire markets buying up property around the NYC internet hub and creating private fibre optic lines to Chicago to trade nanoseconds faster than their competitors super computer and still have a free market. You can't have a world where a handful of people inherit the majority of the worlds wealth and where 10% of the population is imprisoned for profit and call yourselves a healthy society.

I think she envisioned the wealthy as captains of industry, bringing civilization to the masses, and I think that was the vibe of the times, but I think she missed or ignored the scars that the free market leaves on it's environment.

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12-06-2013, 10:54 PM
RE: Surveillance
(12-06-2013 10:34 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(12-06-2013 10:28 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  But that would be relatively dishonest. I don't dislike Rand but I'm also not an objectivist or a minarchist so what would make you think I'm an Ayn Rand fanboi?

'Tis not a good idea to put people in boxes. Especially those you don't know. Wink

A hardcore Rand follower would pass the buck and only blame the government for spying and not place any blame on corporate collusion.
From your comments I have seen on this site, they are very similar to many randyans.

What are your thoughts on private companies (contract work) and governments colluding in making and implementing the vast computer network to spy on everyone?

It seems that you've not comprehended my commentary. I support free and voluntary trade and I hold the notion of the corporation (a legal fiction created and supported by the state) in contempt... especially when they collude with the state.

My worldview is pretty simple to understand. I reject the initiation of force and fraud in all circumstances. Whether you're a CEO, a cop, a football coach, a judge, a teacher, a garbage collector, a scientist, a politician, a landlord, a tenant, a soldier, a president, a friend, a sibling, a parent, et al, you are not allowed to initiate force against another human being.

That's it. Beyond that, you can do whatever the hell you want to do to whomever wants it done to them.

To me, it's a no brainer.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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12-06-2013, 11:00 PM
RE: Surveillance
Normally I am a proponent of thread drift. Here I think it should be avoided. What difference does it make what our socio/economic ideal would be. We have a state that is stomping on our toes in multiple ways.

It is important for others than the fringe to be concerned about the spying on the american public, but the public seems to think "so what". It is almost scary. I am seriously looking at the idea of arming myself with more than a baseball bat. I do not particularly like that idea.

The unconcern of the american public troubles me greatly. With no ready answer on my part.
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