Synthetic life.
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26-03-2013, 09:40 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
Hey, Chas.

Wood is right. Evolution can occur within computer programs. That's not a guess, people have done it. All evolution needs is variation, heredity and selection.

Hey, Wood.

Quote:Perhaps the Christian God used evolution to create beings who were capable of loving and serving God, but not expressly designed to do so. He could do this by designing the system to produce beings with intellect and free will. The other details of humans could be extraneous.

I see where you're going with this, but there's a problem.

MIT ran some very complex computer simulations. They created a virtual world with virtual physics and created a basic form of "life". They then gave it a goal: to be motile. They were shocked at all of the innovative solutions these organisms developed just to be able to move. Aye, there's the rub. They all moved. All of them. Not a single one just up and decided, know what, I'm gonna stop pursuing movement.

Now, if you say that humans are designed to decide whether or not they worship God, then you have something. Some do, some don't. But the problem there is that eating and fucking seem to trump our contemplations of God. The safe money is on eating and fucking being what we're designed for.

You can still get around this by saying, God made eating and fucking organisms, told them to survive, and then spend their time endlessly debating whether or not he exists and is deserving of worship. Not only would that work, but you'd wind up with The Thinking Atheist Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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26-03-2013, 09:43 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(26-03-2013 09:40 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

Wood is right. Evolution can occur within computer programs. That's not a guess, people have done it. All evolution needs is variation, heredity and selection.


Not the one he's referring to. It is a goal-oriented algorithm.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-03-2013, 09:47 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
Chas, this is the same nonsense HJ was spewing on the thread "Defining Evolution".


(01-03-2013 09:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-03-2013 09:44 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Biological evolution refers to the cumulative changes that occur in a population over time. These changes are produced at the genetic level as organisms' genes mutate and/or recombine in different ways during reproduction and are passed on to future generations. Sometimes, individuals inherit new characteristics that give them a survival and reproductive advantage in their local environments; these characteristics tend to increase in frequency in the population, while those that are disadvantageous decrease in frequency. This process of differential survival and reproduction is known as natural selection.

Taken from http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/librar...1.html#Q01


I don't agree with the inclusion of the wording "selective filter".

You can dump your entire last sentence, its crap because it is both limiting and untrue.

The problem I have with the definition you provided is that it is limited to biology. I don't believe evolution is exclusive to biology. For instance why couldn't self replicating robots begin to evolve?

Whats is wrong with "selective filter" and what would you replace it with?

What is limited by the last sentence and what do you find to be untrue?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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26-03-2013, 09:49 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(26-03-2013 09:47 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Chas, this is the same nonsense HJ was spewing on the thread "Defining Evolution".


(01-03-2013 09:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The problem I have with the definition you provided is that it is limited to biology. I don't believe evolution is exclusive to biology. For instance why couldn't self replicating robots begin to evolve?

Whats is wrong with "selective filter" and what would you replace it with?

What is limited by the last sentence and what do you find to be untrue?


Yes, he's grinding his ax. He wants acceptance for guided evolution when there is no evidence for it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-03-2013, 10:18 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(26-03-2013 09:40 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

Wood is right. Evolution can occur within computer programs. That's not a guess, people have done it. All evolution needs is variation, heredity and selection.

Hey, Wood.

Quote:Perhaps the Christian God used evolution to create beings who were capable of loving and serving God, but not expressly designed to do so. He could do this by designing the system to produce beings with intellect and free will. The other details of humans could be extraneous.

I see where you're going with this, but there's a problem.

MIT ran some very complex computer simulations. They created a virtual world with virtual physics and created a basic form of "life". They then gave it a goal: to be motile. They were shocked at all of the innovative solutions these organisms developed just to be able to move. Aye, there's the rub. They all moved. All of them. Not a single one just up and decided, know what, I'm gonna stop pursuing movement.

Now, if you say that humans are designed to decide whether or not they worship God, then you have something. Some do, some don't. But the problem there is that eating and fucking seem to trump our contemplations of God. The safe money is on eating and fucking being what we're designed for.

You can still get around this by saying, God made eating and fucking organisms, told them to survive, and then spend their time endlessly debating whether or not he exists and is deserving of worship. Not only would that work, but you'd wind up with The Thinking Atheist Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Matt,

What I suggested was that human beings were undesigned. A designed object does what it does because it is designed to do so. If the purpose of humans is to love and serve God of their own free will and intellect instead of by design of God, then humans must be undesigned by God. Evolution is the perfect solution. Design the system to produce beings of intellect and free will. If those begins come to love and serve God, it is of their own volition and not by design.
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26-03-2013, 10:29 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(26-03-2013 09:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-03-2013 09:47 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Chas, this is the same nonsense HJ was spewing on the thread "Defining Evolution".


Yes, he's grinding his ax. He wants acceptance for guided evolution when there is no evidence for it.

There is evidence of guided evolution all around you. You just need to lift your head from the sands of evolution is exclusivly a biological process to see it.
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26-03-2013, 10:32 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(26-03-2013 09:47 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Chas, this is the same nonsense HJ was spewing on the thread "Defining Evolution".


(01-03-2013 09:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The problem I have with the definition you provided is that it is limited to biology. I don't believe evolution is exclusive to biology. For instance why couldn't self replicating robots begin to evolve?

Whats is wrong with "selective filter" and what would you replace it with?

What is limited by the last sentence and what do you find to be untrue?

In the defining evolution thread I replaced "selective filter" just for you Fullcircle.
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26-03-2013, 10:34 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(26-03-2013 10:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(26-03-2013 09:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yes, he's grinding his ax. He wants acceptance for guided evolution when there is no evidence for it.

There is evidence of guided evolution all around you. You just need to lift your head from the sands of evolution is exclusivly a biological process to see it.


You have presented no evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-03-2013, 10:45 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(26-03-2013 10:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-03-2013 10:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  There is evidence of guided evolution all around you. You just need to lift your head from the sands of evolution is exclusivly a biological process to see it.


You have presented no evidence.

You haven't seen the mega man video have you?
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26-03-2013, 10:47 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(26-03-2013 10:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(26-03-2013 09:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yes, he's grinding his ax. He wants acceptance for guided evolution when there is no evidence for it.

There is evidence of guided evolution all around you. You just need to lift your head from the sands of evolution is exclusivly a biological process to see it.


Wait I can see it now. I just needed my bible goggles.
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