Synthetic life.
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29-03-2013, 04:09 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(29-03-2013 03:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 03:33 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I don't understand what is wrong with an all knowing god, starting evolution knowing the consequences of evolution, and then later preaching to man kind.

I mean is the blind watch maker really that big of deal. That the natural does what it does? Or do you always have to try and show that god intended homosapians to come about?


What is wrong? The complete lack of evidence.

That is very true.

However I don't get why he'd need to attach a goal for evolution to accomplish.

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29-03-2013, 04:15 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(29-03-2013 04:09 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 03:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  What is wrong? The complete lack of evidence.

That is very true.

However I don't get why he'd need to attach a goal for evolution to accomplish.


Because he doesn't see how it can work without one, or he's trying to justify a god. I don't know.

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29-03-2013, 06:14 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(29-03-2013 04:09 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 03:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  What is wrong? The complete lack of evidence.

That is very true.

However I don't get why he'd need to attach a goal for evolution to accomplish.

It was you guys who came up with idea of evolution having a goal or organisms having a goal. Go back and re-read this thread. I just ran with an idea you guys introduced,
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29-03-2013, 07:54 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(29-03-2013 06:14 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 04:09 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  That is very true.

However I don't get why he'd need to attach a goal for evolution to accomplish.

It was you guys who came up with idea of evolution having a goal or organisms having a goal. Go back and re-read this thread. I just ran with an idea you guys introduced,

Well if I some how miss lead you. I'm sorry.

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29-03-2013, 08:42 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(29-03-2013 03:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 03:09 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You need to replicate it otherwise you are using your claim as evidence for your claim. You wouldn't' accept a claim that the bible is true because it says so in the bible. I won't accept your claim that biological evolution did not need the hand of intellect because biological evolution does not need the hand of intellect.

So I ask you to substantiate your claim by replicating cumulative selection without setting goals for the system or organism......but you fail over and over and over again. Why do you fail? Because it just could be that systems which result in cumulative selection can't come into existence without the help of an intellect.


Wow, that is truly circular.

You have challenged evolutionary theory with a claim that it requires intellect. The burden of proof is on you. You have failed to provide any evidence.

I have described how evolution works without a guiding intellect.
I can write a program that simulates evolution by cumulative natural selection and has no goals and no guidance. Others have already done so.

I suggest you read:
The Blind Watchmaker and Climbing Mount Improbable, both by Richard Dawkins.

If others have done so already...as you suggest above..... you could have easily answered the challenge of showing cumulative selection can be replicated without an intellect establishing goals for the systems or organism. Instead of answering what should be a trivial challenge(if what you claim above is true)....you play word games or give some explaination instead of actually answering the challenge and then appear shocked that I don't accept your opinion.

Also I accept that it is logically possible that cumulative selection can happen without the aid of an intellect setting up the system. I'm just not convinced that it does happen.
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29-03-2013, 10:52 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(29-03-2013 06:14 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 04:09 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  That is very true.

However I don't get why he'd need to attach a goal for evolution to accomplish.

It was you guys who came up with idea of evolution having a goal or organisms having a goal. Go back and re-read this thread. I just ran with an idea you guys introduced,

HJ,
Could you point to where that happened earlier in the thread, please. I can't find it.

Thanks.

(I'm not being sarky, I looked but can't see it)

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30-03-2013, 12:07 AM
RE: Synthetic life.
(29-03-2013 10:52 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 06:14 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  It was you guys who came up with idea of evolution having a goal or organisms having a goal. Go back and re-read this thread. I just ran with an idea you guys introduced,

HJ,
Could you point to where that happened earlier in the thread, please. I can't find it.

Thanks.

(I'm not being sarky, I looked but can't see it)

I made an error of sorts. In very quick review of the thread it appears I was the first to use the word '"goal". I apologize for claiming others introduced it. In my defense my first use of the word "goal" was very much different then subsequent uses by others. When I first used it, the "goal" belonged to the author of tne evolution simulator. Chas then jumped on it claiming that evolution itself had no goals. It was only after Chas twisted my words did we begin to discuss whether evolution itself had goals.

The exchange is on page 10 or 11 of this thread if you want to read it.
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30-03-2013, 06:03 AM
RE: Synthetic life.
(29-03-2013 06:14 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 04:09 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  That is very true.

However I don't get why he'd need to attach a goal for evolution to accomplish.

It was you guys who came up with idea of evolution having a goal or organisms having a goal. Go back and re-read this thread. I just ran with an idea you guys introduced,


Here is where you went entirely off the rails:
Heywood Jahblome Wrote:You claimed that evolution has no goal. My point is that you are wrong. Evolutionary systems designed by intellects have associated goals. Just because the evolution happens within the framework of a computer doesn't mean it isn't evolution.


You are claiming goals for evolution. You are claiming that an evolutionary system that is designed must have goals.

You have been shown to be wrong on both counts.

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30-03-2013, 12:04 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(30-03-2013 06:03 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 06:14 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  It was you guys who came up with idea of evolution having a goal or organisms having a goal. Go back and re-read this thread. I just ran with an idea you guys introduced,


Here is where you went entirely off the rails:
Heywood Jahblome Wrote:You claimed that evolution has no goal. My point is that you are wrong. Evolutionary systems designed by intellects have associated goals. Just because the evolution happens within the framework of a computer doesn't mean it isn't evolution.


You are claiming goals for evolution. You are claiming that an evolutionary system that is designed must have goals.

You have been shown to be wrong on both counts.

No Chas, I haven't been shown wrong. I want to be shown wrong. That's why I keep asking for you or anyone to show a replication of cumulative selection that doesn't require an intellect to establish goals for the system or organisms.
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30-03-2013, 12:08 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(30-03-2013 12:04 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(30-03-2013 06:03 AM)Chas Wrote:  Here is where you went entirely off the rails:


You are claiming goals for evolution. You are claiming that an evolutionary system that is designed must have goals.

You have been shown to be wrong on both counts.

No Chas, I haven't been shown wrong. I want to be shown wrong. That's why I keep asking for you or anyone to show a replication of cumulative selection that doesn't require an intellect to establish goals for the system or organisms.


Just use Google to find some.
There are many programs out there that are excellent evolution simulators.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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