Synthetic life.
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24-03-2013, 09:36 AM
RE: Synthetic life.
Which planet are you living on Ghost ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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24-03-2013, 10:03 AM
RE: Synthetic life.
Hey, Rahn.

Planet have an original thought, not a knee jerk ideological reaction so weak you have to resort to ad homs. You?
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24-03-2013, 10:06 AM
RE: Synthetic life.
Planet Space Ghost.... Big Grin

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24-03-2013, 11:07 AM
RE: Synthetic life.
(24-03-2013 09:33 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Vosur.

That doesn't make any sense. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Like I mentioned before, if we proved intellect could make life, we wouldn't know the methodology. Yes, HUMAN technology wasn't around, but it wouldn't BE human technology that the intellect would have used.
I think you misunderstood what I said. Heywood argues that a successful creation of life in a lab (human technology) shows that life on Earth could have originated as the creation of intelligent beings. I responded that this argument doesn't work unless you assume that these "intelligent beings" who supposedly created us possessed our technology. His argument would be a non-sequitur otherwise, since showing that human technology can create life doesn't prove that alien technology can do the same.

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24-03-2013, 11:16 AM
RE: Synthetic life.
(24-03-2013 11:07 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 09:33 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Vosur.

That doesn't make any sense. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Like I mentioned before, if we proved intellect could make life, we wouldn't know the methodology. Yes, HUMAN technology wasn't around, but it wouldn't BE human technology that the intellect would have used.
I think you misunderstood what I said. Heywood argues that a successful creation of life in a lab (human technology) shows that life on Earth could have originated as the creation of intelligent beings. I responded that this argument doesn't work unless you assume that these "intelligent beings" who supposedly created us possessed our technology. His argument would be a non-sequitur otherwise, since showing that human technology can create life doesn't prove that alien technology can do the same.


Okay fine...but

Then demonstrating human technology can produce abiogenesis in the lab doesn't suggest nature can.

Anyways not a lot of time for me today, so I will comment on other posts later.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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24-03-2013, 12:56 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(24-03-2013 11:16 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Then demonstrating human technology can produce abiogenesis in the lab doesn't suggest nature can.



WOW, just wow...smh

Producing fire in a lab doesn't mean nature can
Producing electricity in a lab doesn't mean nature can
Producing light in a lab doesn't mean nature can

Reproducing the conditions of early earth and then stepping back and see what happens means YES you can.

Do you think that natural chemicals and chemicals in a lab are some how different ?
Are there "lab elements" and natural elements, you know like lab oxygen, lab nitrogen ?
Perhaps the pressure that can be created in a laboratory is different.
Maybe chemical reactions that happen in a lab don't occur in nature when you take those reactions outside ?

Really ? I mean like REALLY ?

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(turns out it takes one bang)

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24-03-2013, 12:57 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
Synthetic Jesus?
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24-03-2013, 12:57 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
Yeah, cause we're unnatural and shit... Dodgy

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24-03-2013, 01:29 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(24-03-2013 12:56 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 11:16 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Then demonstrating human technology can produce abiogenesis in the lab doesn't suggest nature can.



WOW, just wow...smh

Producing fire in a lab doesn't mean nature can
Producing electricity in a lab doesn't mean nature can
Producing light in a lab doesn't mean nature can

Reproducing the conditions of early earth and then stepping back and see what happens means YES you can.

Do you think that natural chemicals and chemicals in a lab are some how different ?
Are there "lab elements" and natural elements, you know like lab oxygen, lab nitrogen ?
Perhaps the pressure that can be created in a laboratory is different.
Maybe chemical reactions that happen in a lab don't occur in nature when you take those reactions outside ?

Really ? I mean like REALLY ?

*bangs head against wall until it hurts
(turns out it takes one bang)

Rhan, put you straw man away. I was pointing out that if Vosur is going to reject laboratory created life as evidence that intelligence can be the origin of life on the basis that it only demonstrates human intelligence can create life, then he should also reject labratory abiogenesis for the same reason. If abiogenesis is replicated in the lab, then abiogenesis becomes a demonstrated fact....just like intelligent design of life is or will very soon be a demonstrated fact.

But for fun i will adress you straw man argument, The element ununpentium can be produced in the lab, but it is not likely it can be produced without the aid of intellect. The same is true of a whole host of things including the device upon which you are reading this.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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24-03-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: Synthetic life.
(24-03-2013 06:08 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 12:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Vosur, I don't have a problem if you reject the following argument.

Premise: Demonstrating intellect can create life in the lab shows that intellect could have created life on earth.
Premise: Synthetic life was created by intellect in a lab.
Conclusion: Therefore an intellect could have created life on earth.
Your argument is flawed right off the bat. The technology that is required by intelligent beings who want to create life wasn't around billions of years go, which is why there is no reason to assume that life on Earth could have originated that way unless you believe that we were created by an advanced extraterrestrial species that possessed said technology.

(24-03-2013 12:15 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  But if you are going to reject the above argument then you should also reject this one that follows:

Premise: Demonstrating abiogenesis in the lab shows that abiogenesis could be how life originated on this planet.
Premise: Abiogenesis has been demonstrated in the lab.
Conclusion: Therefore abiogenesis could be the origin of life on this planet.
Contrary to the creation of synthetic life, abiogenesis works without the technology that we have today. In fact, the very goal of the Miller–Urey experiment was to simulate the conditions that were present on Earth billions of years ago.

Let X = life on earth was created by intelligence.
Let Y = the existence of an intellect who could create life, when life originated on this planet.

P(X) <= P(Y)

This is what you are saying. It is a valid point(as I explained to Hanof earlier in this thread). What is ironic is that in the probability thread you claimed that we would need to actually calculate these probabilities before we can make such statements. Your thinking in this thread contradicts your thinking in the other thread.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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