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Syria-What should be done?
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30-08-2013, 10:17 PM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
The people of Syria are fucked and will continue to be fucked intervention or not. Why get locked into yet another foreign war with major players?

UN or bust. This flying solo shit, no way.

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30-08-2013, 11:24 PM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
This is the situation that we (we being the US) find ourselves in after decades of meddling, racketeering, and just plain bullying for the sake of bullying. We now face a situation that will not bode us well no matter what the decision. We have made our bed, and now we lie in it.

I admit that I am guilty of my apathy towards world affairs until recently, but then I've been religious up until recently so I plead leniency from the the court. Tongue

The situation makes me feel ill. In my heart I feel that if what has been done really has been done, then somebody should do something. At the same time I hardly feel that the US is in any way, shape, or form vindicated in being the country to do so.

So where does that leave us?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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30-08-2013, 11:57 PM
RE: Syria-What should be done?



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31-08-2013, 12:15 AM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
Yup.....

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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31-08-2013, 04:02 AM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
World Opinion Turns Against Obama's Plan to Attack Syria

U.S. Military Officer On Obama’s Plans To Attack Syria: “I Can’t Believe The President Is Even Considering It”…

This has COLD WAR written all over it.

WTF? What kind of monster is Obama? I heard he used to be a lawyer for an usury loan company, but this? Attacks the world with drone bombing. Spies on the world with XKeyscore, Prism and 16 agencies like NSA. And, he's eager to repeat middle east wars all over, just closer to nuclearly armed Israel and Russia. And he's got the greatest world supplies of weapons, nerve gas and nukes.

I heard yesterday he went through some spiritual self-transformation program which involved massive Americanly cheering when walking over hot coals barefooted. This "yes we can" comes from that event. Apparently, it transformed him to the worse - now he thinks everything is possible and everything is his.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...ed-to-ask/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...mplicated/
Yeah, it's not just Muslims against secular Assad, it's a dozen religious sects and ethnic groups against Assad who belongs to a privileged Muslim sect himself. Middle east was a fuckin' disaster since 1920 with borders forcibly drawn by big nations, continued to be disaster throughout the 20th century and now we just hesitantly realize just how much of a disaster it is, thinking something can be done about it. Well, the lesson is, if a disaster gets ignored a long time, nothing that anybody ever does or doesn't do about it will ever be right. There are only terrible choices left.

This disaster has been left there since the end of Cold War, a chain of nations around Russia, puppet regimes as a wall against the invasive U.S. influence. USA was by far the most aggressive force, USSR was almost always on the defensive, Communism being an unworkable model of economy and all. So while the global superpowers quieted down, the gunpowder line of disaster around Russia was just left there. Now the gunpowder ignited and it's spreading, burning east and west.

I have no idea what to do now, I have an idea what nations should do 20 years ago instead of this building capitalism and democracy stuff that occupied us from facing the disaster.
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31-08-2013, 05:40 PM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
Fuck em, let them deal with their own problems.

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31-08-2013, 08:49 PM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
(31-08-2013 05:40 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Fuck em, let them deal with their own problems.

I'd love it if it were that simple. It should be that simple. It isn't. We're tangled up in this shit whether we like it or not. Inaction is now action in this case. I would agree, though, that the less action we take, the better.

(meaning none, but I'm no expert in world affairs so fuck if I know what the right course of action/inaction is)

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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31-08-2013, 09:11 PM (This post was last modified: 31-08-2013 09:17 PM by TheGulegon.)
RE: Syria-What should be done?
(31-08-2013 08:49 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(31-08-2013 05:40 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Fuck em, let them deal with their own problems.

I'd love it if it were that simple. It should be that simple. It isn't. We're tangled up in this shit whether we like it or not. Inaction is now action in this case. I would agree, though, that the less action we take, the better.

(meaning none, but I'm no expert in world affairs so fuck if I know what the right course of action/inaction is)

It's all subjective, anyway. The U.S. can be seen, simultaneously, as the force that freed Jews from concentration camps, and party to the leveling of the German city of Dresden, during WW2. None of the good that has ever came, or will ever come, from war is without some bad. If you don't get involved you can be seen as the force that refused to bomb Dresden, but also the people who did nothing to save millions of Jews. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Personally, I say leave them to it,...but then I'm the kind of soulless atheist that wouldn't jump out in the street to save a baby about to be hit by a truck, unless it was my relation......it's none of my, or the U.S., business! Just let what happens happen. That is the right thing to do, right?

*if not sarcastic, then what descriptor am I looking for, for the above statement?*

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31-08-2013, 09:20 PM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
(31-08-2013 09:11 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(31-08-2013 08:49 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I'd love it if it were that simple. It should be that simple. It isn't. We're tangled up in this shit whether we like it or not. Inaction is now action in this case. I would agree, though, that the less action we take, the better.

(meaning none, but I'm no expert in world affairs so fuck if I know what the right course of action/inaction is)

It's all subjective, anyway. The U.S. can be seen, simultaneously, as the force that freed Jews from concentration camps, and party to the leveling of the German city of Dresden, during WW2. None of the good that has ever came, or will ever come, from war is without some bad. If you don't get involved you can be seen as the force that refused to bomb Dresden, but also the people who did nothing to save millions of Jews. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Personally, I say leave them to it,...but then I'm the kind of soulless atheist that wouldn't jump out in the street to save a baby about to be hit by a truck, unless it was my relation......it's none of my, or the U.S., business! Just let what happens happen. That is the right thing to do, right?

Did you watch the video that DLJ posted? If we sit back and let what happens happen, it just may be the catalyst for shit happening to us. It's not about a moral obligation, it's now a matter of self preservation and the message to those powers in the world that would love to see us suffer depends on what we do here and now.

We had the option to leave shit well enough alone ten years ago. We don't have that luxury anymore.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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31-08-2013, 09:26 PM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
(31-08-2013 09:20 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(31-08-2013 09:11 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  It's all subjective, anyway. The U.S. can be seen, simultaneously, as the force that freed Jews from concentration camps, and party to the leveling of the German city of Dresden, during WW2. None of the good that has ever came, or will ever come, from war is without some bad. If you don't get involved you can be seen as the force that refused to bomb Dresden, but also the people who did nothing to save millions of Jews. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Personally, I say leave them to it,...but then I'm the kind of soulless atheist that wouldn't jump out in the street to save a baby about to be hit by a truck, unless it was my relation......it's none of my, or the U.S., business! Just let what happens happen. That is the right thing to do, right?

Did you watch the video that DLJ posted? If we sit back and let what happens happen, it just may be the catalyst for shit happening to us. It's not about a moral obligation, it's now a matter of self preservation and the message to those powers in the world that would love to see us suffer depends on what we do here and now.

We had the option to leave shit well enough alone ten years ago. We don't have that luxury anymore.

I was being an ass with the moral implications Tongue
But if those don't play a role, and we are simply looking to eliminate a problem, then a few well placed nuclear strikes should take care of it! That's an extreme, obviously, but nothing we do will stop "innocents" from being killed! As long as someone I care about isn't one of them I can't say I truly care, but there are always people who say attack, then berate the attackers for not doing it "cleanly".
So if you say attack, be prepared to hear about civilian deaths!

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