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Syria-What should be done?
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02-09-2013, 10:05 AM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2013 10:13 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Syria-What should be done?
(02-09-2013 07:48 AM)I and I Wrote:  What if the US has been supporting, funding and using Alqaeda as a first wave mercenary collection of arab fighters that can be moved from country to country to destabilize/overthrow anti-western governments.

How many coincidences does it take to make people wonder.
Wonder about what? I don't do this too often, but let me see. I can wonder as well as anyone.

I know that Osama bin Laden was supported by the U.S. against Soviets, and that Saddam Hussein was a former agent for the U.S. too.
Both are dead now, but Osama probably died in 2006 on kidney failure and his younger brother filled in his place.
[Image: 1342961840_a3665c9424_o.jpg]

But that would have to be hell of a close group. There's no way Bush jr. would be clever enough to pull that off. My guess is, half of CIA actually went rogue long ago, they needed to do that in order to intervene in South American countries in past century. Perhaps recently the very same people threw in their lot with international terrorist groups´instead of south American dictators.. They fooled Bush, but they probably took Obama in. Obama used to be a lawyer for financial loan group with bad reputation.
My guess is, Obama knows the U.S. is financially fucked and might meet the same fate as the former Soviet Union. Without Soviets to play the bad guy, there is nobody to blame, yet the military expenses are getting much higher. And we know that military expenses are wasted money, unless used for colonialism.

None of this makes sense, because there is no colonialism today. When USA "liberated" Iraq, they apparently did not get much of its resources, many European companies moved in there to do business. What USA probably wanted was making sure that the oil will be still traded mostly with dollar. Keeping dollar afloat and keeping control on everyone who uses the dollar was probably the goal. In that case the only one who would profit from that would be the financial groups, financial markets.

Financial markets do not contribute anything to the economy, their yearly income is 76-times greater than the total GDP of all states of the world. 76-times of all tangible goods and services. Much of that is dollar and we all know that the dollar is printed by the Federal reserve bank, which is a private corporation, which holds the U.S. by the balls. So if we wanted names to blame, we could get them. But this whole financial system would work under any name and it is as real as anything and more absurd than any conspiracy theory. And yet corporations taking over the governments is the most common political phenomenon today.

So I don't care who works for whom, if Al Quaeda works for CIA works for Obama or vice versa, I don't care, I won't gasp in surprise. For power and control, anyone will work for anyone, in this world. Guessing at alliances of power is interesting, maybe even useful, but our information is incomplete and we don't have the democratic power to fix the system by removing one bad guy after another. It's the ugliness of the whole system that is revolting, an ecology of evil that will readily fill its niches with arbitrary names and faces, doing the same things no matter their pre-election campaigns. The system in which where you stand is where you sit. And we still believe in much of this system, its economy, taxes, media and culture.
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02-09-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
I'm siding with the President on this
#AmericanHegemony
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02-09-2013, 08:03 PM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
(01-09-2013 01:18 PM)I and I Wrote:  Correction: against popular belief, agent orange was never "just to kill food supply" or vegetation.

The US first used it in North Korea and the purpose that agent orange was developed for was to be used on people.

Actually it was a type of 'miracle grow' originally, properly dosed (which was impossibly hard to do) it encourages plant growth but just a bit too much and the plants die.

It's creator was an agricultural scientist out to solve hunger, the government through a number of companies including out friends at Monsanto manufactured and weaponized it.

Despite this don't think that I'm on your side CJLR, I don't want to be party to a culture that hides in the gray areas of morality, it was the chemical equivalent of salting the earth. A death by starvation or a death by bullet, or by gelled gasoline is a still a death and wide chemical assault on the food supple is not exactly a targeted operation. Just because the government did not know that it would cause generations of birth defects does not absolve them, it could have been tested, it should have been tested....heck I'd say that the forests of vietnam where it's first real testing grounds.

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02-09-2013, 08:08 PM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2013 08:15 PM by cjlr.)
RE: Syria-What should be done?
(02-09-2013 08:03 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Despite this don't think that I'm on your side CJLR, I don't want to be party to a culture that hides in the gray areas of morality, it was the chemical equivalent of salting the earth. A death by starvation or a death by bullet, or by gelled gasoline is a still a death and wide chemical assault on the food supple is not exactly a targeted operation. Just because the government did not know that it would cause generations of birth defects does not absolve them, it could have been tested, it should have been tested....heck I'd say that the forests of vietnam where it's first real testing grounds.

It's not a grey area, it's just literally not the same thing.

First degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, and negligence are different charges.

You might well argue that it doesn't matter to the dead man. It does to the legal system.

EDIT: In Canada negligent homicide is manslaughter; I can't remember the difference (if any) under US law. Also you guys have three degrees of murder. That's not the point.

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03-09-2013, 06:06 AM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
(02-09-2013 10:05 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(02-09-2013 07:48 AM)I and I Wrote:  What if the US has been supporting, funding and using Alqaeda as a first wave mercenary collection of arab fighters that can be moved from country to country to destabilize/overthrow anti-western governments.

How many coincidences does it take to make people wonder.
Wonder about what? I don't do this too often, but let me see. I can wonder as well as anyone.

I know that Osama bin Laden was supported by the U.S. against Soviets, and that Saddam Hussein was a former agent for the U.S. too.
Both are dead now, but Osama probably died in 2006 on kidney failure and his younger brother filled in his place.
[Image: 1342961840_a3665c9424_o.jpg]

But that would have to be hell of a close group. There's no way Bush jr. would be clever enough to pull that off. My guess is, half of CIA actually went rogue long ago, they needed to do that in order to intervene in South American countries in past century. Perhaps recently the very same people threw in their lot with international terrorist groups´instead of south American dictators.. They fooled Bush, but they probably took Obama in. Obama used to be a lawyer for financial loan group with bad reputation.
My guess is, Obama knows the U.S. is financially fucked and might meet the same fate as the former Soviet Union. Without Soviets to play the bad guy, there is nobody to blame, yet the military expenses are getting much higher. And we know that military expenses are wasted money, unless used for colonialism.

None of this makes sense, because there is no colonialism today. When USA "liberated" Iraq, they apparently did not get much of its resources, many European companies moved in there to do business. What USA probably wanted was making sure that the oil will be still traded mostly with dollar. Keeping dollar afloat and keeping control on everyone who uses the dollar was probably the goal. In that case the only one who would profit from that would be the financial groups, financial markets.

Financial markets do not contribute anything to the economy, their yearly income is 76-times greater than the total GDP of all states of the world. 76-times of all tangible goods and services. Much of that is dollar and we all know that the dollar is printed by the Federal reserve bank, which is a private corporation, which holds the U.S. by the balls. So if we wanted names to blame, we could get them. But this whole financial system would work under any name and it is as real as anything and more absurd than any conspiracy theory. And yet corporations taking over the governments is the most common political phenomenon today.

So I don't care who works for whom, if Al Quaeda works for CIA works for Obama or vice versa, I don't care, I won't gasp in surprise. For power and control, anyone will work for anyone, in this world. Guessing at alliances of power is interesting, maybe even useful, but our information is incomplete and we don't have the democratic power to fix the system by removing one bad guy after another. It's the ugliness of the whole system that is revolting, an ecology of evil that will readily fill its niches with arbitrary names and faces, doing the same things no matter their pre-election campaigns. The system in which where you stand is where you sit. And we still believe in much of this system, its economy, taxes, media and culture.

Look at the history of Alqaeda presence in the overthrow or attempt at an overthrow of leaders and the seem to coincidentally coincide with US foreign policy. Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Alqaeda was instrumental in splitting the Iraqi resistance which was doing a good job against Americans then after Alqaeda comes in, they split the resistance up turning it into a civil war, the US worked with Alqaeda in Iraq. Then Alqaeda mysteriously shows up in Libya and now Syria.

When has US and Alqaeda interests been opposed to one another?
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03-09-2013, 04:11 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2013 04:20 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Syria-What should be done?
(03-09-2013 06:06 AM)I and I Wrote:  Look at the history of Alqaeda presence in the overthrow or attempt at an overthrow of leaders and the seem to coincidentally coincide with US foreign policy. Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Alqaeda was instrumental in splitting the Iraqi resistance which was doing a good job against Americans then after Alqaeda comes in, they split the resistance up turning it into a civil war, the US worked with Alqaeda in Iraq. Then Alqaeda mysteriously shows up in Libya and now Syria.

When has US and Alqaeda interests been opposed to one another?
I don't know actually. I don't see any pattern in their activities. I've looked them up on the map. They look pretty independent, going along with U.S. interests would be just a small part of what they do. What would for example go against U.S. interests? All that U.S. needs is just a bunch of rumors and ignoring the United Nations to go in with blazing guns.

Do you think Al Quaeda is willing to be convinced to occasionally strike where USA needs? What are they doing in the rest of the world, then? They have to be genuine anti-American extremists to do what they do. If there are any forces behind that, they must believe they can eventually control or contain Al Quaeda. What does Muslim Brotherhood think about AQ? Do they think AQ is a double agent?
I don't know, it's just too messy. There has to be at least half a dozen of independent groups, each playing along for a while and then breaking up. Probably lots of backstabbing all the time. It's interesting to speculate. America is big on financial speculation, while Muslims are forbidden by Islam to charge interest. But they have oil and America needs oil - or not oil, but it needs Muslims to sell oil for dollars. Dollars made out of nothing like fiat money. Muslims realize that dollar is fake and bankrupt and try to cut the ties with dollar. America destroys Saddam Hussein and opens his oil country to foreign markets. Muslims do what?
And I still don't see what role the AQ plays in this. If it was a double agent, why wouldn't the Brotherhood destroy it?
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03-09-2013, 05:56 PM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
(03-09-2013 04:11 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(03-09-2013 06:06 AM)I and I Wrote:  Look at the history of Alqaeda presence in the overthrow or attempt at an overthrow of leaders and the seem to coincidentally coincide with US foreign policy. Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Alqaeda was instrumental in splitting the Iraqi resistance which was doing a good job against Americans then after Alqaeda comes in, they split the resistance up turning it into a civil war, the US worked with Alqaeda in Iraq. Then Alqaeda mysteriously shows up in Libya and now Syria.

When has US and Alqaeda interests been opposed to one another?
I don't know actually. I don't see any pattern in their activities. I've looked them up on the map. They look pretty independent, going along with U.S. interests would be just a small part of what they do. What would for example go against U.S. interests? All that U.S. needs is just a bunch of rumors and ignoring the United Nations to go in with blazing guns.

Do you think Al Quaeda is willing to be convinced to occasionally strike where USA needs? What are they doing in the rest of the world, then? They have to be genuine anti-American extremists to do what they do. If there are any forces behind that, they must believe they can eventually control or contain Al Quaeda. What does Muslim Brotherhood think about AQ? Do they think AQ is a double agent?
I don't know, it's just too messy. There has to be at least half a dozen of independent groups, each playing along for a while and then breaking up. Probably lots of backstabbing all the time. It's interesting to speculate. America is big on financial speculation, while Muslims are forbidden by Islam to charge interest. But they have oil and America needs oil - or not oil, but it needs Muslims to sell oil for dollars. Dollars made out of nothing like fiat money. Muslims realize that dollar is fake and bankrupt and try to cut the ties with dollar. America destroys Saddam Hussein and opens his oil country to foreign markets. Muslims do what?
And I still don't see what role the AQ plays in this. If it was a double agent, why wouldn't the Brotherhood destroy it?

Have you read up on the Muslim brotherhoods history? It was used by Europe to break up and overthrow anti-western governments. The nazis used them, then the British and Americans. They became outlawed in most pretty much all Arab states for that reason.

Check out the wiki
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03-09-2013, 07:21 PM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
In my opinion (what ever that is worth), I think you guys are jumping into the deep end. Grasping at straws or what have you.
As much fun as conspiracy theories are I think it comes down to more stupidity and ideology.
The united states loves freedom. And they have got it in there heads that the are the bringers of freedom to the world. Only its there version of freedom and there freedom only.

They intervene in the middle east because they see dictators and want to remove them so that democracy will instill itself. Despite the fact that that has only really happened with the united states and no other country.

remember, would you do those things if you were president. Because he is human.

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I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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03-09-2013, 07:32 PM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
(03-09-2013 07:21 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Because he is human.

No.

He is a shapeshifting reptiloid alien.

Just like the Queen.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

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04-09-2013, 06:31 AM
RE: Syria-What should be done?
(03-09-2013 07:21 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  In my opinion (what ever that is worth), I think you guys are jumping into the deep end. Grasping at straws or what have you.
As much fun as conspiracy theories are I think it comes down to more stupidity and ideology.
The united states loves freedom. And they have got it in there heads that the are the bringers of freedom to the world. Only its there version of freedom and there freedom only.

They intervene in the middle east because they see dictators and want to remove them so that democracy will instill itself. Despite the fact that that has only really happened with the united states and no other country.

remember, would you do those things if you were president. Because he is human.

when mentioning the US overthrowing dictators, you forgot to mention the installing and propping up dictator part that the US does well also.
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