Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
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18-09-2015, 11:01 AM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 09:56 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 04:36 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  They say they are.

Michael Hess, a local politician from Sweden Democrat Party, encouraged Swedish journalists to get acquainted with Islam's view of women, in connection with the many rapes that took place in Cairo's Tahrir Square during the "Arab Spring". Hess wrote, "When will you journalists realize that it is deeply rooted in Islam's culture to rape and brutalize women who refuse to comply with Islamic teachings. There is a strong connection between rapes in Sweden and the number of immigrants from MENA-countries [Middle East and North Africa]."


One of the worst cases occurred in 2012, when a 30-year old woman was raped by eight men in a housing project for asylum seekers, in the small town of Mariannelund. The woman was an acquaintance of a man from Afghanistan who had lived in Sweden for a number of years. He invited her to go out with him. She obliged. The Afghan man took her to a refugee housing project and left her defenseless. During the night, she was raped repeatedly by the asylum seekers and when her "friend" returned, he raped her too. The following morning she managed to call the police. Sweden's public prosecutor has called the incident "the worst crime of rape in Swedish criminal history."

Where "they" is a single man from a right-wing anti-immigrant political party. So... not one of the statisticians who compiled the actual data.
(one anecdote doesn't quite make it as actual evidence)

"They" are NOT the single man....

MUSLIMS IN GOVERNMENT STATISTICS / SWEDEN

Sweden: 77.6% of all rapes are committed by Muslim males, who total only 2% of population – Gov report

New Sweden: Rapes increase 11 percent in a single year

Sweden is taking in Muslims by the houndreds of thousands these years. With that follows the general violent and sexual persecution of infidels – the blood and the traumas.

Sweden: Rape Capital of the West

Over the past 10-15 years, immigrants have mainly come from Muslim countries such as Iraq, Syria and Somalia. Might this mass influx explain Sweden’s rape explosion?

Sweden's rape rate under the spotlight

Muslim rape wave in Sweden

Immigration has Made Sweden the Rape Capital of the World

The official radio report quoted from BRÅ (The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention) refuses to mention the M-word in the socialist-suffocated Sweden, a country held hostage by the extreme left. But when you contact senior police and government sources they confirm (anonymous in fear of losing their jobs) that these numbers represent Muslims. And a majority of these rapes and sexual assaults are caused by asylum seekers. And these numbers are only the tip of the ice berg. According to the authorities, Sweden’s real rape statistics are 400-900% higher than official numbers. The BRÅ website states:

Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway - Authorities Look the Other Way


Thats just the first page of google search...

And I hope you do recognize the difference between an anecdote and a documented police case that led to trial and conviction.
Do you?

Quote:There are well over five hundred thousand Canadians of Arab or West Asian background - this is several times more than there are south Slavs.

And I never said that south Slavs by them selves outnumber the muslim immigrants.

Now fuck off and take your patronizing tone and your strawman with you.

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18-09-2015, 11:18 AM (This post was last modified: 18-09-2015 11:23 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 04:36 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 04:27 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Were those rapes cause by outsiders?

They say they are.

Michael Hess, a local politician from Sweden Democrat Party, encouraged Swedish journalists to get acquainted with Islam's view of women, in connection with the many rapes that took place in Cairo's Tahrir Square during the "Arab Spring". Hess wrote, "When will you journalists realize that it is deeply rooted in Islam's culture to rape and brutalize women who refuse to comply with Islamic teachings. There is a strong connection between rapes in Sweden and the number of immigrants from MENA-countries [Middle East and North Africa]."


One of the worst cases occurred in 2012, when a 30-year old woman was raped by eight men in a housing project for asylum seekers, in the small town of Mariannelund. The woman was an acquaintance of a man from Afghanistan who had lived in Sweden for a number of years. He invited her to go out with him. She obliged. The Afghan man took her to a refugee housing project and left her defenseless. During the night, she was raped repeatedly by the asylum seekers and when her "friend" returned, he raped her too. The following morning she managed to call the police. Sweden's public prosecutor has called the incident "the worst crime of rape in Swedish criminal history."

Oh, did you mean this Michael Hess?

Certainly you have more than one example culled from a source with an obvious anti-immigrant bias, right? I went and dug up this comprehensive survey of crime in Sweden, but it is silent on the matter of suspect ethnicity and religious faith. Wikipedia mentions a factor of "five times more likely to be investigated [for sex-crimes]" amongst immigrants -- but that doesn't address their faith either, nor does it address actual convictions, which is the more important data.

(18-09-2015 09:49 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I know that you gonna say that this is just one isolated case , and that it proves nothing ant not all of them are like that, but believe me or not , this IS how they think.

And you are an expert on Muslim psychology based on ... ?
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18-09-2015, 11:31 AM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 11:01 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 09:56 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Where "they" is a single man from a right-wing anti-immigrant political party. So... not one of the statisticians who compiled the actual data.
(one anecdote doesn't quite make it as actual evidence)

"They" are NOT the single man....

Indeed, there are some links to follow, as opposed to a single statement from a single politician. That's much better!

(18-09-2015 11:01 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  MUSLIMS IN GOVERNMENT STATISTICS / SWEDEN

Sweden: 77.6% of all rapes are committed by Muslim males, who total only 2% of population – Gov report

Wait, seriously? I take back what I said about "better". I quote:
The foreign rape figures at 77.6% Muslim has been anonymously confirmed by Swedish polish [sic] in a phone conversation.

I hope you're not trying to be serious about this.
(hint: a single anonymous source is not data)

(18-09-2015 11:01 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  New Sweden: Rapes increase 11 percent in a single year

Sweden is taking in Muslims by the houndreds of thousands these years. With that follows the general violent and sexual persecution of infidels – the blood and the traumas.

This is an opinion piece citing spurious correlations, not data. Sorry.

Does the prevalence of rape correspond to the demographic profile of certain immigrant groups? I don't happen to know off-hand, but you are claiming to. Where's the data? Year over year comparisons; let's see 'em.

(18-09-2015 11:01 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Sweden: Rape Capital of the West

Over the past 10-15 years, immigrants have mainly come from Muslim countries such as Iraq, Syria and Somalia. Might this mass influx explain Sweden’s rape explosion?

So... dog whistling speculation? And no accounting for differences in defining and reporting rape between Sweden and other countries, which has already been pointed out to you? And no actual data?

(18-09-2015 11:01 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Sweden's rape rate under the spotlight

Did you even read that one? I quote:
"This was three times higher than the number of cases in the same year in Sweden's next-door neighbour, Norway, and twice the rate in the United States and the UK. It was more than 30 times the number in India, which recorded about two offences per 100,000 people.

On the face of it, it would seem Sweden is a much more dangerous place than these other countries.

But that is a misconception, according to Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention in Stockholm. She says you cannot compare countries' records, because police procedures and legal definitions vary widely."

I... I do hope you're not seriously claiming that Sweden actually has 30x more rapes than India.
(incidentally, India is 15% Muslim, and the absolute highest estimate for Sweden is 5% - so even if this were true, it would argue against your thesis!)

(18-09-2015 11:01 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Muslim rape wave in Sweden

10 years old and contains no actual sources. None of the data are cited. None of the statements are cited. Unfortunately that seems to be on par for these, ah, "sources".

(18-09-2015 11:01 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Immigration has Made Sweden the Rape Capital of the World

The official radio report quoted from BRÅ (The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention) refuses to mention the M-word in the socialist-suffocated Sweden, a country held hostage by the extreme left.

"Socialist-suffocated".
"Held hostage by the extreme left."

Yes. This sounds like a good, clear, impartial source. Let's see what they say.

(18-09-2015 11:01 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  But when you contact senior police and government sources they confirm (anonymous in fear of losing their jobs) that these numbers represent Muslims. And a majority of these rapes and sexual assaults are caused by asylum seekers. And these numbers are only the tip of the ice berg. According to the authorities, Sweden’s real rape statistics are 400-900% higher than official numbers.

So the "real" rape numbers are 8 times higher than the "official" numbers, which are [i]already so much higher than comparable states? Really? And once again all of this is based on anonymous unsourced speculation?

Really?

(18-09-2015 11:01 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  The BRÅ website states:[/i]

Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway - Authorities Look the Other Way

Um, no. That's not the BRÅ website. That's a blog. But there are real sources this time. Let's review some of them:
" 'I think that [the increase is] great news,' says Anna Gustafsson, head of the Domestic Violence Unit at the Malmö Police. She suggests that the increase is due to the fact that women who otherwise wouldn’t press charges for rape now choose to contact the police."

Whoops. Carrying on! It occurs to me that none of the purported "data" (note: there isn't really data) is adjusted for poverty. It's a verifiable and repeatable phenomenon that poverty has a strong positive correlation on all kinds of crime in all nations. The author goes on to explicitly refers to the "ghettos" and high unemployment among Swedish immigrant communities. Could there be any relation there, do you think?

In fact, a source is quoted on the matter:
" 'Over the last 5-10 years there has an increasing tendency to marginalise and alienate immigrants,' says Professor Flemming Balvig, a criminologist at Copenhagen University. 'As a result, many second generation immigrants have reacted against this through various types of criminal activity, including rape.'"

How does the article gloss that? "Criminologist: immigrants are rape champions". That's something all right, but it's sure not honest.

It kind of degenerates into your bog standard Vast PC Cultural Marxist Police State Conspiracy ™ screed after that.

(18-09-2015 11:01 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Thats just the first page of google search...

And you're under the impression that that means anything? Do me a google search for "vaccine harm" and see what you get, mate.

Probably you should go at least a step deeper than University of Google. But that's just my advice.

(18-09-2015 11:01 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  And I hope you do recognize the difference between an anecdote and a documented police case that led to trial and conviction.
Do you?

One incident isn't ever anything more than anecdotal when it comes to broader demographics and statistics, because that's not how data works.

Do you recognise that?

(18-09-2015 11:01 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
Quote:There are well over five hundred thousand Canadians of Arab or West Asian background - this is several times more than there are south Slavs.

And I never said that south Slavs by them selves outnumber the muslim immigrants.

Now fuck off and take your patronizing tone and your strawman with you.

I didn't say you said it. So, as someone once said to me, "fuck off and take your strawman with you". As it were...

But no. You said that the countries of origin for immigrants to Canada were different from the countries of origin for immigrants to Sweden. You based this on nothing. And you explicitly cited Croatians and Serbians as immigrant groups which were present in Canada but not Sweden. I pointed out to you that that's not actually relevant, because you were only discussing specific immigrant groups, who live in Canada in numbers that are at least comparable to their counterparts in Sweden.

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18-09-2015, 12:48 PM (This post was last modified: 18-09-2015 12:51 PM by Slowminded.)
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 11:18 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 04:36 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  They say they are.

Michael Hess, a local politician from Sweden Democrat Party, encouraged Swedish journalists to get acquainted with Islam's view of women, in connection with the many rapes that took place in Cairo's Tahrir Square during the "Arab Spring". Hess wrote, "When will you journalists realize that it is deeply rooted in Islam's culture to rape and brutalize women who refuse to comply with Islamic teachings. There is a strong connection between rapes in Sweden and the number of immigrants from MENA-countries [Middle East and North Africa]."


One of the worst cases occurred in 2012, when a 30-year old woman was raped by eight men in a housing project for asylum seekers, in the small town of Mariannelund. The woman was an acquaintance of a man from Afghanistan who had lived in Sweden for a number of years. He invited her to go out with him. She obliged. The Afghan man took her to a refugee housing project and left her defenseless. During the night, she was raped repeatedly by the asylum seekers and when her "friend" returned, he raped her too. The following morning she managed to call the police. Sweden's public prosecutor has called the incident "the worst crime of rape in Swedish criminal history."

Oh, did you mean this Michael Hess?

Certainly you have more than one example culled from a source with an obvious anti-immigrant bias, right? I went and dug up this comprehensive survey of crime in Sweden, but it is silent on the matter of suspect ethnicity and religious faith. Wikipedia mentions a factor of "five times more likely to be investigated [for sex-crimes]" amongst immigrants -- but that doesn't address their faith either, nor does it address actual convictions, which is the more important data.

(18-09-2015 09:49 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I know that you gonna say that this is just one isolated case , and that it proves nothing ant not all of them are like that, but believe me or not , this IS how they think.

And you are an expert on Muslim psychology based on ... ?
You have plenty of links above

But for your amusement, more "anecdotes"

Norway police report says that ALL rapes in the mentioned year were committed by immigrants.










HUNDREDS MORE MUSLIM RAPE GANG CASES DISCOVERED IN UK

The Muslim rape gang scandal in Britain just keeps getting worse. Last August, the BBC reported that “at least 1,400 children were subjected to appalling sexual exploitation in Rotherham between 1997 and 2013, a report has found. Children as young as 11 were raped by multiple perpetrators, abducted, trafficked to other cities in England, beaten and intimidated

Sydney gang rapes

The perpetrators were a group of Lebanese Australian Muslims that specifically targeted non-Muslim women and teenage girls, some as young as 14.
The six rapes occurred over a one month period. The details of these attacks make for stomach-churning reading. One woman was taken to 3 separate locations, and was eventually raped 25 times by 14 men over a period of 6 hours. A 16-year-old girl was raped by 2 men, before an audience of 12 men. They ended the attack against her by holding a gun to her head and kicking her in the stomach.
Comments that the men made during the rapes made it clear that these were intended as racial terrorism attacks. Victims heard such things as “You deserve it because you’re an Australian,” and “I’m going to fuck you Leb style.”




In Stockholm, Sweden, as many as 20 Muslim men gang-raped an 11-year-old girl. A mother was hosting a birthday party at a public bath/swim center for a group of 11 and 12 year old children. Up to 20 Muslim men who lived at a nearby refugee center arrived at the public bath. They immediately began to assault the children, ripping their swimsuits off and beating the boys when they tried to stop the assault. Eventually, the men cornered one of the little girls in a grotto in the bathhouse and gang raped her.

In the first seven months of 2013, over 1,000 Swedish women reported being raped by Muslim immigrants in the capital city of Stockholm. And that’s the numbers only for Stockholm! Over 300 of those were under the age of 15. The number of rapes is up 16% so far this year compared to 2012 numbers. A large proportion of the increase include rape of young [pre-teen] girls.





Remember this case?


And so on, and so on....

Quote:And you are an expert on Muslim psychology based on ... ?
Not an expert, but like I said, I know probably hundreds of them, I slept in the same room with 5 of them in my platoon for one whole year, and there was about 10-15 more in my company. And , you know, when in the army, subject of women comes up fairly often, so I know what they told me. And they told me it's quite normal to slap her few times to persuade her to have sex.
But, why take my word for it , they explain how you should treat a woman themselves quite well






Do you think I make this shit up? Do you think Madrid and London bombings are made up? Or London beheadings? Or 9/11? Boston marathon?
Is Al al qaeda , or ISIS or Hamas just a right wing propaganda?

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18-09-2015, 01:19 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 12:48 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Do you think I make this shit up? Do you think Madrid and London bombings are made up? Or London beheadings? Or 9/11? Boston marathon?
Is Al al qaeda , or ISIS or Hamas just a right wing propaganda?

Well, there you go, folks. The Boston marathon bombings prove that all rape in Sweden is done by Muslims.

...

I don't think anyone can argue with that.

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18-09-2015, 01:41 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
It is not politically correct to say negative things about Muslims.
President Obama will not even say the words: "ISLAMIC terrorists".
If he doesn't say those words it doesn't mean we don't understand.
P.S. Unfortunately good Muslims will be victims.

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18-09-2015, 01:42 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 01:19 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 12:48 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Do you think I make this shit up? Do you think Madrid and London bombings are made up? Or London beheadings? Or 9/11? Boston marathon?
Is Al al qaeda , or ISIS or Hamas just a right wing propaganda?

Well, there you go, folks. The Boston marathon bombings prove that all rape in Sweden is done by Muslims.

...

I don't think anyone can argue with that.
Again, you are quite good at taking things out of context.

It goes to prove that Islam is an extremely violent religion, other stuff that I posted goes to prove that Islam is extremely oppressive and disrespectful of womens rights.
Together they show that rape is right up Islam's ally.

United nations report, muslims convicted, abundance of victims, police reports...that's all lies and shit....ok, just makes me wonder what would you consider as evidence ?

Seriously, if you consider an official Norwegian police report or conviction of muslims for gang rape as nonevidence ,I got nothing better to offer.

You win.

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18-09-2015, 02:05 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 01:42 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 01:19 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Well, there you go, folks. The Boston marathon bombings prove that all rape in Sweden is done by Muslims.

...

I don't think anyone can argue with that.
Again, you are quite good at taking things out of context.

It goes to prove that Islam is an extremely violent religion, other stuff that I posted goes to prove that Islam is extremely oppressive and disrespectful of womens rights.
Together they show that rape is right up Islam's ally.

United nations report, muslims convicted, abundance of victims, police reports...that's all lies and shit....ok, just makes me wonder what would you consider as evidence ?

Seriously, if you consider an official Norwegian police report or conviction of muslims for gang rape as nonevidence ,I got nothing better to offer.

You win.

It's because it's a matter of what constitutes a reasonable conclusion and where is the evidence X is the causation opposed to just assuming and asserting various things as the cause due to the correlation between them and proclaiming rightful ideas.

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18-09-2015, 02:17 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 01:42 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 01:19 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Well, there you go, folks. The Boston marathon bombings prove that all rape in Sweden is done by Muslims.

...

I don't think anyone can argue with that.
Again, you are quite good at taking things out of context.

I'm being facetious to highlight how you've evaded substantiating your original claims.

(18-09-2015 01:42 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  It goes to prove that Islam is an extremely violent religion, other stuff that I posted goes to prove that Islam is extremely oppressive and disrespectful of womens rights.
Together they show that rape is right up Islam's ally.

Sure, because obviously Sufis and Nizaris don't exist. I mean, all those people are all exactly the same, right? If I didn't know better, I'd almost say that selective interpretation of vague scriptures allow one to justify pretty much any social stance under the sun (cf Christianity). I'm glad you know better!

(18-09-2015 01:42 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  United nations report, muslims convicted, abundance of victims, police reports...that's all lies and shit....ok, just makes me wonder what would you consider as evidence ?

Oh, you know. Actual evidence? If your claim is that "some Muslims are violent" then I freely acknowledge it. Any more than that, you'll have to demonstrate.

So, when it comes to making specific demographic and criminological assertions, I'd expect... data. Anecdotes do indeed prove existence. They say nothing about prevalence.

(18-09-2015 01:42 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Seriously, if you consider an official Norwegian police report or conviction of muslims for gang rape as nonevidence ,I got nothing better to offer.

"There was once a Muslim who raped someone" does not prove anything about what proportions of what crimes are committed by what demographics. It's insane and/or dishonest to repeatedly claim it does.

If you're talking about the video from your previous post... the speakers say that the report is regarding a single year (twice, actually). The video title says five years. Do you see why this is immediately suspect? It furthermore doesn't link to the source document, which would be an otherwise trivial way to justify its claims. Not that "all identified attackers", if we can even accept that at face value, means "all attackers", since we can prove that in the United States under similar conditions victims identify their assailants as of visible minority background far more often than real statistics bear out, notwithstanding unidentified individuals - and of course we'll ignore the part where the police spokesperson explicitly links crime to poverty and social marginalisation.
(but at the very least, this is still much better than the pathetic "look what I googled in 3 seconds" collection from earlier!)

...

Premise: some X are Y.
Observation: here is an X that is Y.
Conclusion: all X are Y.
... do you see the flaw?

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18-09-2015, 02:21 PM
RE: Syrian refugees attack gay people in Germany.
(18-09-2015 08:11 AM)Banjo Wrote:  A very good friend, a theologian atheist, lives in Denmark and constantly reports Islamic violence to me. indeed I have heard it over the phone.
Aha. . . Well I don't really see, nor hear about constant Islamic violence here in Denmark. Well naturally there is some violence from the gangs that duke it out with Hell's Angels and Banditos for the drug market and such but likewise I hear about Muslim graveyards being desecrated and not too long ago a bus belonging to a refugee-center was set on fire while swastika and such things was painted on the premise too.

I'd say integration has failed horribly in Denmark and the reason is ghettos. The violence from Muslims seems to be concentrated around these which makes sense. If you put them all together in the same place, they loose any reason they had to integrate themselves in their new society. Also they have been allowed to isolate themselves as to not go learn Danish. Now naturally one could reason they actively should seek to do this on their own. But we must also understand the culture they come from and have that in mind when trying to integrating them.
Good healthy integration is a two-way deal and the rhetoric in Denmark has for the past year been all about them having to conform to Danish values all by them selves. Which is just plain stupid to expect. . . well in my opinion.
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